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tutmeister

Concorde even closer

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At the moment you have a virtual engeneer and you can tell him to trim for the various phases ie. ground, take-off, flight, decent and landing. The manual says that atm the engeneer panel has the basic functions but I don't know what that entails.

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@Scarp, whilst I applaud the efforts of the developer to create such a complex aircraft it does sound as though significant compromises have been made to the FE’s panel and the technicalities of balancing the fuel throughout the various phases of a flight. I will be very interested to hear how testing goes given a beta version is being made available.

I suspect the “basic functions” mean switches will move but not actually have any effect.

Concorde had 13 fuel tanks and it required the full attention of the FE throughout the flight. How this works out will be fascinating.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Well it is an early access, or as I call it: eager access because it's very bare bone at the moment. Meaning this is for those who just can't wait and just want something to play with. But they have ambitions of adding functions as they go along, and increasing the price as they do, if you want to read more about it here's a link where your can read more about it and download the current "essentials" user guide (I asume it's the same that comes with the product). And you can browse through the devs forum (same link) and read what the beta testers and launch customers (he he) have to say.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/179675-infos-and-update-files/ 

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I hope they improve their audio mastering. I have the Colimata Hornet, and while the 3D sound is complex, the mastering is really bad - completely flat with no bass. Flying a jet with no oomph really breaks the immersion.

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1 hour ago, Scarp said:

Well it is an early access, or as I call it: eager access because it's very bare bone at the moment. Meaning this is for those who just can't wait and just want something to play with. But they have ambitions of adding functions as they go along, and increasing the price as they do, if you want to read more about it here's a link where your can read more about it and download the current "essentials" user guide (I asume it's the same that comes with the product). And you can browse through the devs forum (same link) and read what the beta testers and launch customers (he he) have to say.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/179675-infos-and-update-files/ 

Thanks. I've had a read of the posts but unless I register I cannpt read the supplied PDF. It's not a problem as I'm unlikely to switch to XP preferring to stay with P3D and await the FSL version.

But I was curious about its development so thanks for the link.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
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On 5/12/2019 at 12:02 PM, Colonel X said:

I heard it's out?

Yes, it's out!

Jean-Jacques


Jean-Jacques Struyf

between EBBR and EBCI

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Discussion on Concorde seems to have dried up. Why? Is no one testing her and discussing their findings?

I saw a friend fly the latest version today. Still a lot of work to do on the flight model and the AFCS. The most alarming ‘bug’ was reheats being turned on when throttles were fully forward. Ouch! That should not happen. Reheats are controlled via separate controls behind the throttles. Full dry power was the norm before reaching FL280 at 395kts IAS and after reheats are turned off reaching Mach 1.7.

We also managed to reach Mach 2 at FL280 with an IAS of over 500kts. Again, totally unrealistic. Hopefully improvements will be made to make the flight model more realistic.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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43 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Discussion on Concorde seems to have dried up. Why? Is no one testing her and discussing their findings?

I saw a friend fly the latest version today. Still a lot of work to do on the flight model and the AFCS. The most alarming ‘bug’ was reheats being turned on when throttles were fully forward. Ouch! That should not happen. Reheats are controlled via separate controls behind the throttles. Full dry power was the norm before reaching FL280 at 395kts IAS and after reheats are turned off reaching Mach 1.7.

We also managed to reach Mach 2 at FL280 with an IAS of over 500kts. Again, totally unrealistic. Hopefully improvements will be made to make the flight model more realistic.

Thanks for the feedback Ray. Discussion post release has been  quiet. My money is still in my pocket for now.

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2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Discussion on Concorde seems to have dried up. Why? Is no one testing her and discussing their findings?

I saw a friend fly the latest version today. Still a lot of work to do on the flight model and the AFCS. The most alarming ‘bug’ was reheats being turned on when throttles were fully forward. Ouch! That should not happen. Reheats are controlled via separate controls behind the throttles. Full dry power was the norm before reaching FL280 at 395kts IAS and after reheats are turned off reaching Mach 1.7.

We also managed to reach Mach 2 at FL280 with an IAS of over 500kts. Again, totally unrealistic. Hopefully improvements will be made to make the flight model more realistic.

EARLY ACCESS

Early access, also known as early funding, alpha-access, alpha founding, or paid-alpha, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue further development on the game. Those that pay to participate typically help to debug the game, provide feedback and suggestions, and may have access to special materials in the game. The early-access approach is a common way to obtain funding for indie games, and may also be used along with other funding mechanisms, including crowdfunding. Many crowdfunding projects promise to offer access to alpha and/or beta versions of the game as development progresses; however, unlike some of these projects which solicit funds but do not yet have a playable game, all early access games offer an immediately playable version of the unfinished game to players.

Edited by Arthur42417

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@Arthur42417, I’m well aware of the terms under which people bought this software so there’s no need to post them. But progress seems rather slow. I’m not convinced this is the best way to develop the product but that’s just my opinion.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Posted (edited)
On 10/19/2019 at 10:20 PM, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Arthur42417, I’m well aware of the terms under which people bought this software so there’s no need to post them. But progress seems rather slow. I’m not convinced this is the best way to develop the product but that’s just my opinion.

Hello

I mainly post over in the other forum but I thought it might be useful to get as many peoples inputs as possible on this aircraft . My reference to compare this add on is the Concorde X for P3d but I also have various bits of knowledge I’ve collected over the years from all sorts of books and videos. 

Firstly the developer is promising a new update after X plane 11.50 comes out of beta with more autopilot functions which I look forward to. 

The one major thing that’s bothering me however is the performance of the aircraft. Correct me if I’m wrong but with 93 tonnes of  fuel and a full passenger load I should not be hitting 190 knots after 30 seconds? Also it’s rather easy to bust 250 knots at 20 degrees pitch up with these weights. The engine power entered into plane maker looks correct but the plane seems over powered. 

Unfortunately the developer and many users don’t seem to be aware of any issue with the flight dynamics.  

As I said on the other forum, it would be nice to have an aircraft that handles like the real thing, not just something that handles like people think the aircraft used to fly. E.g behaving like a rocket at MTOW. 

Edited by JohnH90

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Posted (edited)

John,

Having flown the FSLabs Concorde for many years I feel qualified to answer some of the points you raise regarding performance.

93T is close to full capacity so V1 would typically be around 165kts and Vr around 190kts. Reheats would be active for 1m 20s. Those were the values for a recent flight I undertook from Paris to JFK.

I haven’t timed how long from throttles forward to rotation but would expect it to be longer than 30 secs. Perhaps 40-45.

Regarding exceeding 250kts the procedure is to pitch up perhaps up to 20° as 240kts is reached to maintain that airspeed. Once the reheats are cancelled and engine thrust reduced for noise abatement the nose needs lowering to maintain 250kts. Are you cancelling the reheats manually or does the program do it? Same with reduced thrust.

Power is then increased slowly as altitude increases. By 6,000ft you should be on full dry power of 104 N2.

Climb rates will be quite modest with that much fuel. Another thing to check is:-

  • At FL280, IAS should be around 395kts / Mach 0.95.
  • Mach 2.0 will only be reached at 50,000ft. Any earlier and that is inaccurate.

Use those as a guide  to model accuracy.

It does sound as though it’s overpowered but the situation with reheats and noise reduction is critical. If reheats are kept on too long then yes, it’s easy to exceed 250kts even with 20° pitch up.

EDIT: I saw the two videos you linked to and the 31L departure out of JFK took 44 secs from “now” to “rotate”. That flight had 95T from memory as I have that DVD by ITVV.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot
Additional info

Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Hello,

Thanks for your insight. This is exactly the sort of reply I hoped to get from others. It looks like I’m in the right ballpark with this then.

The reheats do have to be cancelled manually and they have to be cancelled well before 1:20 in order to stay below 250 at those weights. 

I said I would try to give the developer more constructive criticism directly in future but it’s very difficult to find resources that go into this much detail. I’m hardly going to just send the FSlabs manual and tutorial. Are you aware of any websites or books that might contain the relevant info, performance graphs etc? 
 

Thanks

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Hi John,

Using any FS Labs material would be unethical. There is a BA Concorde manual in PDF form available on eBay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-Airways-Concorde-Performance-Manual-Part-1-COPY-on-PDF-CD-/273785037368

For the very modest price that seems a good starting point. I’m not aware of any other documents.

How do you calculate reheat time? Assuming you can fly any route loaded into the sim that time would vary enormously. One flight I regularly take is Manchester to Lisbon. Vr is just 139kts and reheat time around 45 secs.

I did read the discussion on Colimata and the author seems happy with the aircraft performance. But where is he getting his performance data from?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v4.5, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 4.6Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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