The best traffic and ATC combo?

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

2 hours ago, Thomasso said:

So there is no viable ATC software compatible with that? So how do you know that you can land or takeoff if the ai isn't controlled? How do you avoid an airplane entering the runway when you're on final? 

Hi, 

it doesn't work like that. All traffic is controlled by the simulators AI logic, including collision detection. Most ATC programs don't control AI, not even the default ATC does. All you get is a verbal narration of what the AI logic is doing. There are exceptions (VOXAtc? ProAtc? Don't really know) and there were and are attempts at improving at least certain phases of flight - but nothing RTM yet.

If it is any consolation - there seem to have been some improvement to the AI logic over the years. While there still are many unnecessary go-arounds, runway incursions are pretty rare. I can't remember the last time when it happened to me.

Before the rants start: the AI logic of the simulator concerns itself with every type of simulated object, not only the AI aircraft. That is why it is lacking for example in the air traffic separation department. But it is capable of moving around everything automatically that you throw at it, be it plane, helicopter, car or boat - with just a few lines of code. Making this more aware of air traffic would probably require writing a completely separate simulator module for that purpose. Personally I don't think that is going to happen. It is much more likely that the API is opened further, so it will become possible to properly take control of all AI planes from the outside - and then someone will write a proper software solution for it.

Best regards

Edited May 19, 2019 by Lorby_SI

[Gandalf 45]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

AIG for the aircraft and Radar Contact v4 for ATC. Both free although I made a decent donation to AIG.

As for the person who said there’s no viable ATC program have you any idea how hard it is to write one? 🙄 I’ve been using RC4 for 13 years and it still does a bloody good job.

I have no idea how easy or hard it is to write any software. I’ve been using RC4 probably as long as you have. That’s all totally beside the point I was making which was that no current ATC programme will do what we all want it to do ie control us and the AI correctly, both in the air and on the ground.

Regards

G

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

13 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I have no idea how easy or hard it is to write any software. I’ve been using RC4 probably as long as you have. That’s all totally beside the point I was making which was that no current ATC programme will do what we all want it to do ie control us and the AI correctly, both in the air and on the ground.

Regards

G

That’s because it’s currently impossible because the Ai are directly controlled by the sim. John Dekker did try to control Ai behind your aircraft on approach but eventually the sim won out resulting in the Ai hurtling past you at supersonic speed. That’s how hard it was.

For info, you need to master trigonometry to calculate distances, angles and speed not just for your aircraft but numerous Ai and then to determine if any posed a threat or simply to give them instructions.

I can remember John liaising with a Scottish trig expert and their dialogue confounded me. Given the complexity no wonder there aren’t any that fulfill real world ATC. You need to be a genius.

[regis9 4,011]

AIG is where it’s at.  Don’t waste money on payware AI.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

no current ATC programme will do what we all want it to do ie control us and the AI correctly, both in the air and on the ground.

VOXATC does both.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

2 minutes ago, regis9 said:

AIG is where it’s at.  Don’t waste money on payware AI.

Just a gentle reminder that the AIG servers require funding so whilst no charge is made for the software users should consider making a donation to cover AIG costs.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

2 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

VOXATC does both.

How can it control the Ai within the sim when it’s already been explained that is controlled by the core program?

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

How can it control the Ai within the sim when it’s already been explained that is controlled by the core program?

VOXATC creates its own AI from installed aircraft and bgl-based schedules (I use AIG). That's how it controls and communicates with them. The sim's AI activity level sliders are set to 0% and the default ATC is disabled.

That's the good news other than VOXATC is relatively bug free. Now the bad news. VOXATC hates malformed ADE files. These malformations include orphaned parking spots, overlapping taxi nodes, poorly sized gates, etc.. Certain 3rd party airports are notarious for having sloppy ADE files. Like to edit your airport ADE files? VOXATC is perfect for you.

And now the worse news. Do you fashion yourself as a flightsim "expert"? If so VOXATC is designed just for you because for the past year there has been no official technical support. There is an unofficial support forum here at AVSim though.

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

@jabloomf1230, thanks for the warts and all explanation. I have made minor corrections to AFCAD files but that’s it. Think I’ll stick with what I know.

Must be frustrating when you buy a product and the support dries up.

[JustanotherPilot 219]

Dont know if its the best but I'm happy with Traffic Global, Orbx AU AI traffic and Proatcx for Atc. Proatcx is getting in need of an update, but after trying most out there I find it quite immersive,particularly if you add your own regional background atc chatter.

[vadriver 247]

26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

the warts and all explanation

ray

jay has been unusually brief in his above & i suggest a tad dramatic.

Vox has many other "pluses" (TTS voices use a big one) and as I contend does not need much support anyway .... just a few minor glitches to correct (most of which have arisen in the 64bit current).

as for afcad malformation, I find the "reworks" by the team at AIG solve most of the issues vox finds.

bottom line ..... a bloody good traffic engine & atc in one addon for both vfr & ifr "flying" and simply compatible with most planners & mce.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I just want VOXATC all to myself.😉

To be honest, it and the AIG Manager are the only things keeping me from switching to XP11 exclusively.

[regis9 4,011]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Just a gentle reminder that the AIG servers require funding so whilst no charge is made for the software users should consider making a donation to cover AIG costs.

Absolutely correct and a good point, while technically freeware it's certainly well worth a donation(s).

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

@vadriver, I have no doubt it's a popular addon but I'm happy with RC4. I only posted to offer an opinion and to point out how difficult it is to write code for ATC programs.

[IanHarrison 522]

Unless I am mistaken, which is quite likely, ProAtc is a "talking" ATC program which is fine for people with their own FlightSim rooms.

For us ordinary mortals who have family and TV in the same living area, talking to ATC is out.

That's why I still use Radar Contact.

Ian Harrison