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heavy1216

Autogen Popping P3D v4.5

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On 5/20/2019 at 12:04 PM, heavy1216 said:

 

I'll give it a try right now

Did this ever solve your problem? 


Dan

 

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The issue still exists. I really just gave up and accepted it. I installed P3D over again and it still did the same thing with Orbx Lights and the unmentionable lights both tested. Frames locked at 30fps and it's still there.  


HAPPY FLYING
~G "Heavy1216" Edge

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Aa I use AG radius at medium I am able to use both AG sliders ar very dense without poping up issues...


Gerard

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I have noticed that the people who seem to have "solved" the autogen popping issue have very powerful processors and graphics cards. The people (like me) complaining of the problem have relatively modest systems. Maybe that simply is the answer?


My system specs: i7 4790k @4.0 GHz, Nvidia GeForce 970, 16 Gb RAM, Windows 10.  Sim: P3Dv4.5 Professional; Orbx Global and Vector, Orbx OpenLC Eu and NA, and most Orbx FTX regions in EU and NA. Preferred aircraft: PMDG DC-6, Manfred Jahn DC-3 and A2A Bonanza, Comanche and Cherokee

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21 minutes ago, AviatorMan said:

I have noticed that the people who seem to have "solved" the autogen popping issue have very powerful processors and graphics cards. The people (like me) complaining of the problem have relatively modest systems. Maybe that simply is the answer?

No. I've done numerous tests taking all load from the CPU and/or GPU lowering several sliders from LOD to Tesselation, Autogen Bulding density etc. on several machines over time, but the popping is still there. At the end of the day it's exactly as Gerard says:

Autogen slider <= Medium: No Autogen Popping

Autogen slider > Medium: Autogen Popping

Nothing else matters. As far as I can tell, all people claiming they don't see the issue are masking it by using short-range visibility, flying in narrow valleys etc.

Kind regards, Michael


Prepar3d Professional v4+5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus Z170 / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

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This certainly has an influence, yes. But also the fact (sorry to say), that many simmers stubbornly stick to FPS numbers and as such use combinations in their settings that further provoke autogen loading in batches. Using "unlimited" inside P3D together with generally high settings overloading the CPU and yet insisting that the sim is otherwise a choppy mess is one of those stubborn attitudes you constantly see here in the forums.

Why am I that strict: because over at the ORBX forums, you find the proof of it. Due to the fact that TrueEarth products are the most demanding addons ever, many people complain about blurries, batchy or no autogen loading, stutters and general performance issues and in more than 90% of the cases those issues are fully or at least partially resolved by using the suggested setup for TE products by ORBX. And guess what? This includes an internal frame limit as most important setting...

Now, of course you will hear instantly those claiming that with a FPS limit of 30, they only get 20-22FPS in some scenarios while they would have more than 30FPS in the same scenario when using "unlimited". Those users you should then ask the question: "why do you think that your computer provides you 20-30% more FPS with one setting vs. the other WITHOUT any trade-off?"

If your computer is capable of "only" 20-22FPS when using a frame limiter of 30 vs. more than 30FPS when using "unlimited", you should not blame P3D for "doing something" wrong but accept that obviously your rig is not capable of generating more than 20-22FPS in such a heavy load scenario. And consequently, a setting that "miracously" provides 20-30% FPS in the same scenario MUST result in drawbacks somewhere else. And yes, blurries and autogen popping IS this "somewhere else".

Means: if you put your sliders and settings as such as your rig is capable of running the sim at acceptable frame rates, you will get rid of most of the performance issues constantly popping up here and in other P3D related forums. And the first step for this is: accept that more or less constant 25-30FPS results in a more fluid and smooth sim experience compared to an average of 35FPS with fluctuations from 20 to 60...

PS: if you do not believe me, you can test this "hypothesis" easily. Put your FPS slider on "unlimited" with your current settings and note the average FPS number. Then lower demanding settings at least two notches and check the FPS number again. Now, put a frame limit that is representative of the lowest FPS number you got in the "test" with low settings. Surprise, surprise: your simulator will now run 99.9% with exactly this FPS number. You will not see any FPS loss anymore, you will not see anymore 20-30% lower FPS in your test scenario. Guess why? Because your FPS limit is set as such that your hardware is capable of reaching this FPS number in 99.9% of the cases.

Now in the ideal world, you should "test" your sim according this approach until you find the "sweetspot", I would call the "sweetspot" those settings that result just exactly in the FPS number your hardware can still maintain. Or, like in my case, the settings that you get your desired FPS number (30 for me) in 80-90% of the scenarios, which is perfectly fine. As I am a fan of high graphic settings, I accept 20-25FPS on huge hubs like EGLL, EHAM, EDDF etc. for the sake of a 30FPS limit that basically totally eliminated blurries, autogen popping and stutters in my case.

Of course, and then my way too long text is over, many additional influences make finding this "sweetspot" pretty hard and cumbersome. In my case, when using my "normal" settings, FPS suffer like hell in overcast conditions (due to the 4xSSAA) and then I should basically dial back my settings a notch. Currently, I just reduce the AA down to 4xMSAA, as this can be done on the fly without interrupting the sim session.

EDIT: Michael is scientifically absolutely right. However, I really hardly ever notice autogen popping, not even when flying in nice weather conditions that allow the sight until the end of the autogen drawing. The heavier the destination scenario, the more likely I still see some autogen popping in the far distance, of course. But then, basically above returns into place, for approaches into heavy scenarios, I might still use settings that are a notch too high for my hardware...

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Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

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@AnkH Interested read. Thanks. It is amazing that with your powerful rig you still need to do some compromises in some situations.


- TONY -
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22 minutes ago, AnkH said:

This certainly has an influence, yes. But also the fact (sorry to say), that many simmers stubbornly stick to FPS numbers and as such use combinations in their settings that further provoke autogen loading in batches. Using "unlimited" inside P3D together with generally high settings overloading the CPU and yet insisting that the sim is otherwise a choppy mess is one of those stubborn attitudes you constantly see here in the forums.

Why am I that strict: because over at the ORBX forums, you find the proof of it. Due to the fact that TrueEarth products are the most demanding addons ever, many people complain about blurries, batchy or no autogen loading, stutters and general performance issues and in more than 90% of the cases those issues are fully or at least partially resolved by using the suggested setup for TE products by ORBX. And guess what? This includes an internal frame limit as most important setting...

Now, of course you will hear instantly those claiming that with a FPS limit of 30, they only get 20-22FPS in some scenarios while they would have more than 30FPS in the same scenario when using "unlimited". Those users you should then ask the question: "why do you think that your computer provides you 20-30% more FPS with one setting vs. the other WITHOUT any trade-off?"

If your computer is capable of "only" 20-22FPS when using a frame limiter of 30 vs. more than 30FPS when using "unlimited", you should not blame P3D for "doing something" wrong but accept that obviously your rig is not capable of generating more than 20-22FPS in such a heavy load scenario. And consequently, a setting that "miracously" provides 20-30% FPS in the same scenario MUST result in drawbacks somewhere else. And yes, blurries and autogen popping IS this "somewhere else".

Means: if you put your sliders and settings as such as your rig is capable of running the sim at acceptable frame rates, you will get rid of most of the performance issues constantly popping up here and in other P3D related forums. And the first step for this is: accept that more or less constant 25-30FPS results in a more fluid and smooth sim experience compared to an average of 35FPS with fluctuations from 20 to 60...

PS: if you do not believe me, you can test this "hypothesis" easily. Put your FPS slider on "unlimited" with your current settings and note the average FPS number. Then lower demanding settings at least two notches and check the FPS number again. Now, put a frame limit that is representative of the lowest FPS number you got in the "test" with low settings. Surprise, surprise: your simulator will now run 99.9% with exactly this FPS number. You will not see any FPS loss anymore, you will not see anymore 20-30% lower FPS in your test scenario. Guess why? Because your FPS limit is set as such that your hardware is capable of reaching this FPS number in 99.9% of the cases.

Now in the ideal world, you should "test" your sim according this approach until you find the "sweetspot", I would call the "sweetspot" those settings that result just exactly in the FPS number your hardware can still maintain. Or, like in my case, the settings that you get your desired FPS number (30 for me) in 80-90% of the scenarios, which is perfectly fine. As I am a fan of high graphic settings, I accept 20-25FPS on huge hubs like EGLL, EHAM, EDDF etc. for the sake of a 30FPS limit that basically totally eliminated blurries, autogen popping and stutters in my case.

Of course, and then my way too long text is over, many additional influences make finding this "sweetspot" pretty hard and cumbersome. In my case, when using my "normal" settings, FPS suffer like hell in overcast conditions (due to the 4xSSAA) and then I should basically dial back my settings a notch. Currently, I just reduce the AA down to 4xMSAA, as this can be done on the fly without interrupting the sim session.

EDIT: Michael is scientifically absolutely right. However, I really hardly ever notice autogen popping, not even when flying in nice weather conditions that allow the sight until the end of the autogen drawing. The heavier the destination scenario, the more likely I still see some autogen popping in the far distance, of course. But then, basically above returns into place, for approaches into heavy scenarios, I might still use settings that are a notch too high for my hardware...

Well described, Chris. After having set the FPS limit to unlimited and using a monitor refreshrate of 30 Hz for the last two years, I prefer now the internal limiter with my native monitor refresh rate (60 Hz). For "normal" areas I've set internal FPS @ 30 with high autogen settings. At more demanding scenery I've set FPS @ 22-24 with more moderate settings. This way, autogen popping is barely noticeable. Lowering FFTF to 0.10 or 0.05 helps to achieve my targeted frame rates. The only drawback compared to unlimited fps is that flying curves is a bit more stuttery now.

Edited by Nemo

- Harry J.

i7-7820X (@4.8 GHz), 32GB RAM (@3467) 2080Ti (3440x1440), SSD 500GB, (Win10x64),  SSDs 1+2 TB (P3Dv5.x + ORBX). FSGlobalNG (mesh), ORBX (Global+OLC, all FTX Regions, all TE products, many Airports), DDscenery (NY, CH, MIA), Airports (FT, FB, FSDT, AS); PMDG (737, 747, 777), MJC DQ400, RA Piston Duke, A2A C172. Weather ASP5. F1 GTN complete. AI Traffic: AIG OCI

 

 

 

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I use a 30Hz monitor and fps unlimited, VSync and TB on. The simulator can keep those 30 fps in (nearly) all situations and gives me a very smooth experience.

I have a certain "autogen popping" test situation in the Silicon Valley area where there's a sea of houses to compare and which I know pretty well under several settings. I have tried limiting fps internally to 30fps or lower as well, but it didn't help me against autogen popping either and moreover doesn't provide the same smooth display.

After countless hours of experimenting, I got tired and just set autogen distance to medium.

Kind regards, Michael

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Prepar3d Professional v4+5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus Z170 / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

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Has anyone else noticed this problem getting worse in v4.5 compared to previous versions?

Even when using Dynamic FFTF with a setting of 1.0 above 5000 feet I still have issues. Didn't have them in 4.4.

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Yup, I totally believe you. My long writing was somehow getting out of focus and I started to include the issues like blurries and stuttering into it.

As mentioned in the EDIT part: your statement is totally true regarding the autogen draw distance setting "medium" or higher (Rob Ainscough has a nice video on YT showing this on his utterly fast rig). Yet if I check your signature, I might have to say that your 6700K running at "only" 4.0GHz is simply not capable of running higher settings with 30FPS. At least my 8700K running at 5.0GHz is not capable of maintaining 30FPS in every situation, and I have 50% more cores and 25% higher clock rate.

@DChockey08 no, in my case, the situation is 1:1 identical to v4.4, maybe even a little bit better...


Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

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Autogen and scenery draw distance should be set at medium level. Higher draw distance will eventually cause to be popping up. 


C. Uygar

Aircraft Maint. Engineer. at LTFJ

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23 minutes ago, AnkH said:

I might have to say that your 6700K running at "only" 4.0GHz is simply not capable of running higher settings with 30FPS. .

I should mention that I (i) (nearly) only fly "light" GA planes, (ii) outsourced  several stuff to a networked laptop, (iii) use a hardware panel, thus no cockpit, neither 2D nor 3D, on display (iv) use either UTL or PSXSeecontraffic for plane traffic.

This way I can hold the 30 fps nearly overall indeed, even in FB KSFO + FTX NCA (granted except TE London). However, as soon as I add the virtual cockpit the 30 fps (plus smoothness) are gone indeed.

Kind regards, Michael

Edit: According to my observation, autogen popping remained the very same from P3D 4.0 to 4.5, no change I could notice

Edited by pmb

Prepar3d Professional v4+5, AeroflyFS2, XP11; Beta tester of SimStarter, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus Z170 / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung SSD M.2 500 GB + Samsung SSD 1 TB + Intel SSD 500 GB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 /  XTOP/Saitek hardware panel / HP Reverb / Win 10/64

 

 

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You need a decent rig but nothing too powerful. Even users with i9 9900k and rtx2080ti reporting issues. But there are so many opinions out there that it can be hard to set things up properly since fs9. Until you find your settings flightsimming reminds me of old timer cars and Harleys. 50% of the time fixing/tuning and 50% on the road. In the end it is very satisfying when everything works until the next addon that brakes your setup.

That's not to say I have the solution for everyone and I am saying anyone here is wrong. But you don't get a smooth flying experience by just throwing money at your sim.

What works for me:

- Frames limited to 33 in P3d and important set the FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01. Try that, I have no blurries. It is controversially discussed but this are the same settings as if you use unlimited. You get the same frames because if you limit frames internally, p3d set FFTF=0.33, that is where your 10-20% frame lost comes from with limited frames (easy to test this hypothesis. Set p3d to unlimited and set FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.33).

- I run my i7 6700 without hyper thread. That made a huge difference when it came to texture loading in batches.

- My gtx1080 is slightly overclocked as my VRAM and I limit the frames for the GPU to 35 with GPU TWEAK. Raising the VRAM speed is helped in heavy cloud situations but doesn't change my frames.

- Last tweak that helped with late loading of airports is textur bandwidth multiplicator=1024. This one is tricky though. Standard value is 30. It is possible to calculate the maximum, depending on your GPU speed and VRam type and speed. With my 1080 witch uses GDDR5 you could go higher and with an GTX 20xx even higher. That said it is tricky because there is not one value for all systems and when set wrong it can utterly destroy frames and cause micro stutters.

I never use unlimited and there is no gain in doing so on my PC in my opinion. I stopped hunting for frames and go for smoothness instead. With TrackIR everything around 30 fps is fine as long as I don't get stutters or black textures. And even when the frames go down to 18-20 on approach at ORBX Heathrow it is flyable with p3d v4.5. But I have to admit I don't fly there because at Heathrow my settings are to high for my system. Flightbeam KPDX with Orbx Portland and region in stormy weather no problem.

I don't use the 30Hz and vsync method anymore because it is slightly worse when panning the view fast with TrackIR. Although it is in my opinion a very solid method and worth a try. Takes much less time to get it right that way.

I like to keep my settings the same all over the world:

For comparision p3d settings: 3840x2160x32, texture resulution 4096x4096 and 7cm, high-resolution textures and high detail radius, tesselation ultra, mesh 2m, scenery complexity extremely dense, draw distance very high, dense autogen, water high, reflection clouds, special effects all high, shadow quality low, shadow draw distance ultra, with terrain and clouds casting shadows.

cfg tweaks: FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01 TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=1024 OPAQUE_SHADOW_TEXTURE_SIZE=4096

Good luck with finding your personal settings and have fun.

 


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Must be just me o 4.5 then...

One "trick" I've used to mitigate the problem (for jetliners at least) is to set the simulation rate momentarily to 1/4x speed when fumbling around with the FMC on decent. Considering you're punching information into the FMC you'll barely notice the reduced rate and it will give the sim time for the scenery to "catch up" with the aircraft for a few minutes.

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