Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Simicro

Who stayed on 4.3 and why?

Recommended Posts

Also sticking with 4.3 for the reasons stated above.  I would say I need to lag behind 2-3 versions to avoid being on the front lines of the compatibility issues each release kicks off.

I moved from FSX only about 9 mo. ago and I must say P3d seems to be a lot higher maintenance for both us and the developers.  (IMHO - :biggrin: )

Jeff

Share this post


Link to post

4.4 is as far as I'm willing to go for now unless autogen has been fixed or a must have feature has been added.  


Dan

i9-13900K / Asus Maximus Hero Z790 / RTX 4090 FE / G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32 GB DDR5-6400 CL32 / Artic Liquid Freezer II 360 / Samsung 980 PRO SSD 1TB PCIe NVMe M.2 / Samsung 980 PRO SSD 2TB PCIe NVMe M.2 / Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD 2TB PCIe NVMe M.2 / EVGA 1000W G3, 80+ Gold / Phanteks Eclipse P600S ATX Mid Tower / Arctic P14 PWM Case Fans / LG C2 42 Inch Class 4K OLED TV/Monitor / Windows 11 Pro

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Nyxx said:

You also have stoped supporting W7 and that should be pointed out also. 

That's to be expected: Windows 7 is WAY older than even P3D 1.0, since it was released in 2009.

Its mainstream support ended in January 2015 and every support will stop next January, after which Microsoft will stop releasing security updates for it so yes, even if we didn't stopped supporting Windows 7 *intentionally*, it's very likely it happened when updating one of the development tools we need to use to make software for the sim. To create any 64 bit add-on for P3D4, you MUST use Visual Studio 2015 as *minimum* (and LM suggest VS 2017 for 4.4+), so we don't have any other choices other than use it and, I guess one of these updates must have resulted in some changes in one of the Windows API calls (each version of Visual Studio results in different runtime libraries used), which resulted in our software not supporting Windows 7 ENTIRELY. With "not entirely", meaning you'll see an error *after* exiting the simulator, although the whole software still runs normally.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, virtuali said:

That's to be expected: Windows 7 is WAY older than even P3D 1.0, since it was released in 2009.

Its mainstream support ended in January 2015 and every support will stop next January, after which Microsoft will stop releasing security updates for it so yes, even if we didn't stopped supporting Windows 7 *intentionally*, it's very likely it happened when updating one of the development tools we need to use to make software for the sim. To create any 64 bit add-on for P3D4, you MUST use Visual Studio 2015 as *minimum* (and LM suggest VS 2017 for 4.4+), so we don't have any other choices other than use it and, I guess one of these updates must have resulted in some changes in one of the Windows API calls (each version of Visual Studio results in different runtime libraries used), which resulted in our software not supporting Windows 7 ENTIRELY. With "not entirely", meaning you'll see an error *after* exiting the simulator, although the whole software still runs normally.

I solved the issue by simply deleting all traces of FSDT sceneries out of my system.

Asta la vista baby!


A pilot is always learning and I LOVE to learn.

Share this post


Link to post

I am on 4.0  :)  Is that wrong?  I do not plan to upgrade until I do a new build (HW)   I don't like to update a whole bunch of addons for a micro patch that doesn;t usually give me much..I have pretty much everything working fine.... Not adding more addons either.. contended with what I have, Its easy to upgrade P3D patches (client) not a problem.. its the other addons I have to keep fixing.. 

4.0 was an awesome upgrade wihich solved the memory issue...  Aftet that.. meah! :) 

Manny

Edited by Manny
  • Like 1

Manny

Beta tester for SIMStarter 

Share this post


Link to post

I am staying because everything is working properly. Lockheed’s PBR is overrated imho and tomatoshade does the job just fine. I don’t have the time in my career to be patient with some of the dumpster fire stories I hear on this board with 4.4 and even more so with 4.5. 

Edited by UAL4life
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

On 4.4 running on W7 64bit. No problems whatsoever, Probably won't go to 4.5. Happy with my setup.


Neil Ward

CPU Intel Core i7 7740X@4.30Ghz with FrostFlow 240L Liquid Cooling, M/B ROG STRIX X299-E-GAMING, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, RAM G.Skill 32GB DDR4 Ripjaws Blue, 

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, DJJose said:

I solved the issue by simply deleting all traces of FSDT sceneries out of my system.

Asta la vista baby!

If the reason was Windows 7 not properly supported, you haven't obviously "solved" anything, you just delayed the inevitable. You WILL update your Windows sooner or later, so I'm sure you will give our products a better chance, and of course you'll find out they work very well with no issues on current OS.

Share this post


Link to post

Me too I'm on Win 7 and I confess I deinstalled FSDT sceneries (and compelled installation of GSX) because of the annoying error message "P3D has stopped working" and also because the "select vehicle" menu in P3D was slower.

It was sad because I really like the FSDT Geneva scenery despite its age but I did not like to be forced to install GSX (that I don't use) in order to install the scenery.

Edited by Simicro

- TONY -
 

 

Share this post


Link to post

The problem is that GPU tech is moving forward faster than the CPU and AMD and NVIDIA work with Microsoft to bring new tools and support with the OS, this is were W7 will be impacted in the future, and LM and LR will want to advance there sims with SDKs that use the latest tech why because customs want it.

PS This is born out by threads like what do you want to see in P3Dv5, result everything including the Kitchen sink. 

Edited by rjfry

 

Raymond Fry.

PMDG_Banner_747_Enthusiast.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
23 hours ago, Simicro said:

Me too I'm on Win 7 and I confess I deinstalled FSDT sceneries (and compelled installation of GSX) because of the annoying error message "P3D has stopped working" and also because the "select vehicle" menu in P3D was slower.

The problem of the slowest vehicle selection was caused by having installed *thousands* of new objects in the sim and, even if they are clearly marked as not flyable, the simulator "select vehicle" page is still slowing down.

Of course, this is not something special about GSX. ANY add-on that installs thousands of objects, like an AI traffic product with many models+liveries combinations will result in exactly the same effect. Obviously, combined with GSX vehicles, it will be even worse.

Using the old model+repaint system (like any other AI product out there), was the only way to have many operators available in FSX and older versions of P3D. But each time we added a new operator, the number of new objects installed increased a lot, because you had to multiply it for the number of models with a variable livery.

We fixed this ENTIRELY with the upcoming PBR update, which of course (that's why I said "don't stay on 4.3"...) requires P3D 4.4 as minimum.

Thanks to the special Render to Texture feature of the latest SDKs, we went away entirely with repaints for operator variations, and this allowed us to REDUCE the number of objects installed by GSX by about 7000, and at the same time we increased the color variation so, instead of vehicles always looking basically white, we can have multiple color variations, and link every operator logo to every base color variation, without having the number of objects exploding. And adding a new operator will be now *VERY* easy for users, since all they'll have to do, will simply be pick a texture, choose a base color, and the new operator will be there and assigned to the airport, without even a restart. And adding a new operator will NOT add to the number of installed Simobjects, because we don't do a traditional "repaint": we use one of the *few* basic repaints, and draw the operator logo directly on it, using DirectX.

This is a clear example of using the latest technology offered by the latest version of the sim. The issue with the error on exit MIGHT likely be caused by something related to DirectX, since DX 11 is only PARTIALLY supported in Windows 7:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/direct3darticles/platform-update-for-windows-7

The article gives a long list of warning about unsupported or with different behaviors in DX11 API calls, and the need for drivers using the WWDM 1.2 driver model, which is not available under Windows 7, so DX11 software will always *underperform* there, if not just crashing.

Note that, this issues might well happening in the sim, but you won't be able to discover them, unless you use an application ( like GSX ), which uses these features. We used DirectX in the current GSX only to do the Jetway Numbers, but as I already explained above, we'll use it extensively with the PBR update, to improve the product, make it easier to use, nicer to look at, and to FIX the problem caused by having to install too many object variations.

So, you said you uninstalled GSX because the crash on exit and the slower vehicle selection, but they have been already fixed ( the crash on exit never happens on Windows 10, and the vehicle selection will be fast in the PBR update) and fixed them with DirectX 11 rendering, which is THE feature which would benefit the most of stop using Windows 7 in the first place.

Edited by virtuali

Share this post


Link to post
 
 
 
12 minutes ago, virtuali said:

So, you said you uninstalled GSX because the crash on exit and the slower vehicle selection, but they have been already fixed ( the crash on exit never happens on Windows 10, and the vehicle selection will be fast in the PBR update) and fixed them with DirectX 11 rendering, which is THE feature which would benefit the most of stop using Windows 7 in the first place.

Umberto,

I can live with the close down/ exit error but it sounds like your saying this big update going out might not be compatible with W7, if that's the case we need a warning so like myself I can stay with GSXv2 as it is, not lost GSX because of the update or have my sim crashing with the update.

Can you make it clear if this update will or will not work under W7, please? It would not be hard to find simmers using W7 still.

  • Like 1

David Murden  MSFS   Fenix A320  PMDG 737 • MG Honda Jet • 414 / TDS 750Xi •  FS-ATC Chatter • FlyingIron Spitfire & ME109G • MG Honda Jet 

 Fenix A320 Walkthrough PDF   Flightsim.to •

DCS  A10c II  F-16c  F/A-18c • F-14 • (Others in hanger) • Supercarrier  Terrains = • Nevada NTTR  Persian Gulf  Syria • Marianas • 

• 10900K@4.9 All Cores HT ON   32GB DDR4  3200MHz RTX 3080  • TM Warthog HOTAS • TM TPR • Corsair Virtuoso XT with Dolby Atmos®  Samsung G7 32" 1440p 240Hz • TrackIR 5 & ProClip

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/30/2019 at 6:28 AM, virtuali said:

If the reason was Windows 7 not properly supported, you haven't obviously "solved" anything, you just delayed the inevitable. You WILL update your Windows sooner or later, so I'm sure you will give our products a better chance, and of course you'll find out they work very well with no issues on current OS.

Updating to win 10 is not a problem at all. I've already upgraded for free and can do so any time I want. I simply prefer Win 7 and have no worries about security issues. Unless P3D v4 can be hacked.

One reason for me to upgrade would be if the CPU requires win 10 or if CTDs or log errors would stop. Our CTD forums show that CTDs and errors are sill there and most users have no idea of what to do to fix them. The error caused on exit by the Addon manager or GSX v2 is a known issue, My concern with FSDT airports is much greater than an error on exit.

Why is it that when I take of from KLGA and look toward KJFK, I can NOT see the airport loaded? I'm on P3D v4.

Why is it that I can't see the lighting during dusk at KCTL? I'm on P3D v4.

Why is it that I still can't see the airport when I do a replay? I'm on P3D v4.

Since FSDT's approach is to force updates or the use of GSX and an addon manager, this is a much bigger issue for me than any error on the log. Like many here, I put my trust on many AVSIM members when they said that FSD airports are among the best, and they are, but as a customer/user I wish I could just install the airports, just like I do any other airport and just enjoy them for what they are. It's not like I spend all my time on one airport. It's too much hassle, when it should be very simple.

Until that major issue is addressed, I will no longer recommend  FSDT airports to anyone who wants the best airports available for P3D v4. It's not a simple install and go enjoy process!

As for the OP question, I'm on 4.5 HF1 and I highly recommend it. It's the best version of 3D v4 that I've tried and I've tested every version since v 4's initial release.

 

Edited by DJJose
  • Like 1

A pilot is always learning and I LOVE to learn.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, DJJose said:

Why is it that when I take of from KLGA and look toward KJFK, I can see the airport loaded? I'm on P3D v4.

That's because we tuned KJFK area range to be exactly like that, in order not to have both KLGA and KFJK. While on FSX this was required to prevent OOMs, on P3D "just" because you have "infinite" memory, doesn't mean fps doesn't matter anymore. In fact, BECAUSE you have "infinite" memory, the possible fps issues are even more pressing than before and the NYC area is a known fps pit, that's why the scenery has been optimized to be like that.

 

Quote

Why is it that I can't see the lighting during dusk at KCTL? I'm on P3D v4.

If you mean dynamic lightning, then yes, it's obviously done for performance reasons because, when KCLT came out, P3D 4.0 was just being released, and the DL performance impact was tragic, so we had to do extra steps to use a very sophisticated custom LOD that, instead of "just" checking the radius of an object, takes into account a polygon perimeter, so we were able to precisely turn off DL on the opposite side of the terminal you are located because, most of the DL was required to lit AI and your airplane on gate. Because the scenery was *designed* to not rely on DL, just to use DL as an additional effect.

KORD V2, for example, is *designed* to RELY on DL,since it's a 100% native P3D4 scenery that was never supposed to be used on FSX, so we have an option there, to have "optimized DL" ( like KCLT ), or "full DL", so everything will be lit at the same time. Yes, it has an fps impact, of course, but you can choose.

 

Quote

Why is it that I still can't see the airport when I do a replay? I'm on P3D v4.

The instant replay problem is a problem of the sim, which doesn't support Simobjects created programmatically during a replay.

This USED to be a problem of our sceneries only, but only because we were the first to use Simobjects to create scenery, because they allows way more flexibility than plain .BGLs. Being the first doing something, usually comes with some baggage and growing pains.

However, now that so many sceneries out there use Simobjects too (usually with SODE), we can only hope people will finally realize this wasn't an FSDT problem, since every scenery using SODE will have all its objects ( jetways, most commonly ), disappearing during instant reply as well.

 

Quote

Since FSDT's approach is to force updates or the use of GSX and an addon manager, this is a much bigger issue for me than any error on the log.

 

The approach is what makes all these things possible. 

We don't used our software "just because". We used it because it was *necessary*. In KORD V2, being our first 100% P3D4 scenery which is not hampered by having to be compatible with FSX, we'll use plain standard .BGL AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, leaving the usage of Simobjects only when absolutely required, since a native P3D4 .BGL can do by itself lots of things which weren't possible in FSX, thanks to Lua scripting, for example.

And no, just "recompiling" a scenery originally made for FSX with the P3D SDK doesn't give you magical improvements, because you DESIGN a scenery to be made in a certain way if you need to take into account backward compatibility or not.

An example ?

KMEM ground textures *are* compiled with the P3D SDK, which improves some things. But they are still made following the FSX concept of multi-layered polygons to have base ground detail + fine details, since we couldn't possibly redo the whole scenery just for P3D. It's a scenery that was designed to work in FSX, so it will stay like that, and recompiling with the P3D SDK (and only the ground polygons), it's really the best we can do without doing a remake. The same is valid for KCLT and KSDF.

KORD V2, instead, uses a P3D4-exclusive method, which obtain the same effect ( base low res ground + hires details ) with NO multi-layers polygons, which result in the number of ground polygons HALVED compared to the same scenery, but made to work in FSX too. Not having multi-layer polygons not only solves any possible ground flickering issues caused by polygons so close to each other, but they also run *faster*, and not just because there 50% less, but because the alpha blending between the two "layers" (which are not layers anymore), happens on a single shader pass, instead of having to draw the two layers separately with two different shaders, as it was in FSX.

 

Quote

Like many here, I put my trust on many AVSIM members when they said that FSD airports are among the best, and they are, but as a customer/user I wish I could just install the airports, just like I do any other airport and just enjoy them for what they are. It's not like I spend all my time on one airport. It's too much hassle, when it should be very simple.

The era of "simple" airports has ended. Today, many of the newest release use some kind of software module to manage extra features, usually SODE. Some are using it just for the jetways, others more extensively.

Do you want to go back to static jetways or bugged animated jetways ? Do you want to go back to fake Docking systems ? On P3D4, which has an extensive SDK that allows developers to do so much more ? This is called competition and progress.

 

Share this post


Link to post

@virtuali

You seem to have missed the Question about GSXv2 update.

Will it be compatible with W7? or W10 only?

With KORDv2 also be compatible with W7?  or W10 only?

Thank you.

Edited by Nyxx

David Murden  MSFS   Fenix A320  PMDG 737 • MG Honda Jet • 414 / TDS 750Xi •  FS-ATC Chatter • FlyingIron Spitfire & ME109G • MG Honda Jet 

 Fenix A320 Walkthrough PDF   Flightsim.to •

DCS  A10c II  F-16c  F/A-18c • F-14 • (Others in hanger) • Supercarrier  Terrains = • Nevada NTTR  Persian Gulf  Syria • Marianas • 

• 10900K@4.9 All Cores HT ON   32GB DDR4  3200MHz RTX 3080  • TM Warthog HOTAS • TM TPR • Corsair Virtuoso XT with Dolby Atmos®  Samsung G7 32" 1440p 240Hz • TrackIR 5 & ProClip

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...