Will FS10 finally herald the end of the 2D panels

[LAdamson 240]

>The last time the 2d vs. vc debate came up, the numbers>appeared roughly 50/50 for both sides, so it would make sense>to keep both. >>As for VCs being for the GA crowd, I fly mostly GA and I use>2D cockpits almost exclusively. Just my personal preference,>but no VC has ever impressed me other than the latest Realair>SF260. >I use the RealAir SF260 much more of the time, than all others combined. I just happen to enjoy full view sliding canopy cockpits. Besides, the RealAir's VC runs very smooth on my system. It's one of those frame rate friendly VC's. VC's invoke more senses of feel, unless you have a three or more monitor setup.Yet..............once I see a fully functional Garmin 1000 glass panel setup released, then it will be 2D for me, when using this type panel. Just as with complex airliner panels, or MFD's crammed with a lot of information in a GA aircraft, 2D's are just much more readable. Given the size of a monitor, you just can't read info on a tiny VC MFD, unless using a 2D popup. That's the bottom line.L.Adamson

[Guest vas_yan]

Who will disappear? Oh, I get it...You mean the "2D panel hater" bunch who show utter disrespect to the way others enjoy their FS.Hopefully indeed...

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

I don't think most of us who prefer the VC are saying they should get rid of the 2D panel IN SPITE of the fact that VCs are more demanding, not as smooth and less functional. I think what most of us are saying is if MS can provide VCs that don't suffer from any of those limitations, then the 2D panel becomes totally unnecessary since those of you who want 2D panels can just set the VC view to match a traditional 2D panel and not pan at all. As it stands right now, in FS9, most VC's do suffer from those limitations. The exception is RealAirs planes which all feature VCs that have perfectly smooth gauges, are fully functional, and not terribly heavy on framerates (I mean if I can run them and get upwards of 20fps consistently on my measly P4-1.8ghz system, most anyone should be able to.) I pretty much only fly the RA planes now and they are pure joy to fly from the VC. So, the crucial factor is the elimination of the current VC limitations in all types of planes (RA has shown what the future might be like, but more complex planes still need the 2D option). If those issues can be squashed by MS, the old 2D panel becomes nothing but an interference between the external view and the VC.

[Guest vas_yan]

I disagree.!I am afraid most just say "get rid of the 2D". That's what gets to people's nerves. Nobody would care for the 2D panels if MS found a way to "provide VCs that don't suffer from any of those limitations". Actually I don't care about any kind of panel. I just want to do my "job". If there was a way to connect the sim directly to my brain cells I wouldn't mind...BUT, NOW and in the NEAR FUTURE, 2D is going to be a necessary evil, because there are things that you can do better with it.P.S. I have the SF260 and I also fly it strictly from the VC.

[alastairmonk 0]

The RealAir VCs are wonderful, but unfortunately there are few others as good. Maybe if EVERYONE could do them as well (and even in the SF.260 the radio stack is a bit awkward to tune unless you "relocate") there might be a case for such relatively simple panels to go all-VC, but until that point the 2D panel needs to remain.Alastair

[kerosene31 349]

I don't know, even if VC limitations were completely eliminated, I still couldn't see myself using a VC to fly a complex airliner.

[Guest vas_yan]

I suppose that one of the VCs' limitations is that it is hard to fly a complex plane with. If that too was eliminated somehow...Errr, you get my drift? Only problem is that I can't think of a more efficient way to fly such complex planes than a 2D panel. Or, a two-three person crew sharing the same...VC. With more than one monitors. And more than one mice. Regards,

[windycloud 30]

Such fundamental change as the elimination of 2D panels will most likely force all the current addons to undergo major redesigns. No matter who prefers to fly from what, I don't think the cost associated will be worthwhile for us.Jason

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

DOnt' forget, this is FSX we're talking about, not FS9. Also, Nobody says we can't always have pop-ups for fiddly things like radios (although I don't have much trouble working them in RealAirs VCs.) I just don't see how, assuming the traditional issues like poor gauge updates, framerate hits, and functionality are resolved (as they basically have been in RA's VCs already), theres a need for 2D. That applies to any type of plane afaic. I'm also assuming that MS will eventually include functions that are now allowed through the use of utils like Active Camera in the sim out of the box (things like mouse panning and being able to set multiple hot key viewpoints are pretty fundamental to using VCs, particularly in more complex planes). That said, I'm virtually certain FSX will still have 2D panels...and thats fine. I'm certainly not a militant anti-2D activist or anything. I just think sooner or later, 2D will be a thing of the past...

[Guest Bill Hinton]

Yes, Larry,I remember that. It would be nice if you could post a pictures of the Hawker (Peredine) Main, Overhead, FMC and Throttle Quadrant for the VC designers to view.

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

I think maybe you are misinterpreting what most of us are saying. THeres just no denying that VCs are still hard to use in most of the more complex planes and that they definitely place higher demands on the system than the 2D panels. But that will likely change in the future.

[kerosene31 349]

Isn't this whole argument moot anyway? I'm fairly sure I read somewhere that FSX will still have both panel options. We can postpone the great debate for another few years :)

[Guest Bell206freak]

For anyone who says Virtual Cockpits in complex aircraft don't work, they're dead wrong. Go to http://www.hovercontrol.com and download the Bell 412 EP package by Jordan Moore and be sure to download the service packs. The virtual cockpit is one of the most complex there is, and I only fly that aircraft using the virtual cockpit.Virtual Cockpits are so much more realistic than a claustrophobic 2D panel. For instance, they offer a far more realistic sense of perspective when flying an aircraft. The views out of them are more realistic, and your peripheral vision is what it would be in reality when setting the zoom at roughly .75 or .70 zoom setting. After all, flying in the real world is done in a 3D cockpit, so why shouldn't simulated flying within Flight Simulator be done the same way?It doesn't matter what aircraft I fly, I only fly in the virtual cockpit. Technology has progressed, so should Flight Simulator. Granted, I wasn't impressed with the virtual cockpit when it made its official debut in Flight Simulator 98, but I was #### impressed with the virtual cockpit features available with Flight Simulator 2004, and ever since I took my first flight, I have never - not once - looked back at the 2D panel.

[Dillon 2,197]

Can you point me to where all the updates are on HoverControl's site??? I have this Helo and the VC is not clickable. There's no click spots on the overhead or the main panel... :-hmmm

[Guest tdragger]

Yes. Please feel free to continue the epic debate (elsewhere ) but it's a non-issue for FSX. It will once again have both.