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1 hour ago, irrics said:

So that amazing looking weather/clouds is powered by real weather data.

Umm - YES PLEASE!!!  - awesome..

 

Current weather plugins for P3D and XP are capable of being "powered by real weather data" to show a static image in the background. That's not the same thing as a software-generated, dynamic weather system using that data. 

Using the impressive thunderstorm image from the other thread as an example, the "tell" would be whether those clouds are changing shape as the minutes tick by, or if it remains a static image. 

I'll be thrilled if it's dynamic, and not just prettier static clouds than what we get now in other sims (although for some here, that seems to be enough). But let's not jump to conclusions about it being dynamic weather until we know more.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

I'll be thrilled if it's dynamic, and not just prettier static clouds than what we get now in other sims (although for some here, that seems to be enough). But let's not jump to conclusions about it being dynamic weather until we know more.

Certainly not jumping to any conclusions..

But let's be candid - if it only matched what we can currently do with 3rd party plugins, but was native, that'd be a win and enough for most everyone anyhow.  I'm of course hoping for much more, as I'm sure we all are.

You are excited at least a little bit, right?  😀

Sorry if I'm reading all your posts wrong in tone, but it just seems like you are cynical and skeptical almost to a fault here.  Again, if I'm reading you wrong, I very much apologize.  Text is hard to tell tone.

Edited by irrics

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, irrics said:

Certainly not jumping to any conclusions..

But let's be candid - if it only matched what we can currently do with 3rd party plugins, but was native, that'd be a win and enough for most everyone anyhow.  I'm of course hoping for much more, as I'm sure we all are.

I agree. You may not hang out on the XP forum here, but I've griped for years that Laminar needs to do a major update of the underlying weather engine, because there is only so much 3rd party addons can do without that.

I think 90% of the dynamic side of weather modeling should be handled by the base flight sim. Leave 10% to 3rd parties for eye candy like prettier sunsets. 

So yes, I'd be in favor of MSFS handling most or even all of that internally. It looks like they have it covered in the eye candy department anyway! I'm just more personally interested in dynamic weather effects, because that has an immediate impact on flying. And it's way too early to know anything about that.

When Spencer says MSFS is using data from real weather in the trailer, I don't think it necessarily means anything different from current weather modeling in P3D or XP (both with addons). It doesn't mean it's dynamic real weather. That may sound like splitting hairs, but there's a difference between a CB that's a static painting and one that includes dynamic, ever-changing modeling as a real system and not a painting.

 

Quote

 

You are excited at least a little bit, right?  😀

Sorry if I'm reading all your posts wrong in tone, but it just seems like you are cynical and skeptical almost to a fault here.  Again, if I'm reading you wrong, I very much apologize.  Text is hard to tell tone.

 

Oh sure, I'm excited about MSFS  just on general principles. It's nice to see them back in the game.

I've been flying sims for as long as anyone else here. I was one of the two SysOps in the flight sim forums on the old Compuserve system, before there was a World Wide Web. I ran the combat sim forum. We did regular, live "fly ins" using the BBS and the limited multiplayer flight mode back then. Somewhere in a closet I have a leather jacket that no longer fits, with a big "Microsoft Flight Simulator" stitched on the back. Got that from Microsoft as a gift for running an event on Compuserve. I'm a MS fan from way back, and only moved over to XP because (in my view) it did a better job of modeling the GA planes and helicopters I enjoy flying.

However, I'm also a skeptic by nature, and maybe I'm coming across too heavily in that respect. I just have an instinctual reaction to reading assumptions based on hope, and not solid evidence. There's been a lot of that here after the announcement.

Edited by Paraffin
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

When Spencer says MSFS is using data from real weather in the trailer, I don't think it necessarily means anything different from current weather modeling in P3D or XP (both with addons). It doesn't mean it's dynamic real weather. That may sound like splitting hairs, but there's a difference between a CB that's a static painting and one that includes dynamic, ever-changing modeling as a real system and not a painting.

I'd strongly suspect it's the former. I.E. that the weather system is more akin to what we currently have.

I'm not sure weather data exists to make a truly dynamic weather experience. Sure, you could have some kind of AI that builds out storms and has them build and change dynamically, but then it'd probably stray from what's actually going on in the real world and you know how much FS fans hate that.

Edited by bonchie

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4 hours ago, bonchie said:

I'd strongly suspect it's the former. I.E. that the weather system is more akin to what we currently have.

I'm not sure weather data exists to make a truly dynamic weather experience. Sure, you could have some kind of AI that builds out storms and has them build and change dynamically, but then it'd probably stray from what's actually going on in the real world and you know how much FS fans hate that.

That's a good point. Current sims are just based on airport METAR reports or similar data. That's not enough to build a simulation of a chain of separate CB's in your path, or a huge advancing storm front that may be far from the airport.

My ideal imaginary future sim would tap into local radar data available online, and then generate thunderstorms as individual, fully modeled and dynamic 3D storms based on the red hot spots in the local wx radar data. That's how to do this, not just grabbing a METAR from the nearest airport and throwing that into the sim as "real weather." 

If we're talking about next generation sims, let's really get there with weather modeling as well as sexy terrain. The USA and Europe at least, have a network of realtime radar weather data that a sim should be able to use, with enough money thrown at the problem.

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@Paraffin

I fully agree..

I actually think they should consider a move away from worrying about matching real world conditions out the window at a given moment and just worry about having real world realistic and believable weather in the Sim itself if it would help. 

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27 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

My ideal imaginary future sim would tap into local radar data available online, and then generate thunderstorms as individual, fully modeled and dynamic 3D storms based on the red hot spots in the local wx radar data. That's how to do this, not just grabbing a METAR from the nearest airport and throwing that into the sim as "real weather." 

If we're talking about next generation sims, let's really get there with weather modeling as well as sexy terrain. The USA and Europe at least, have a network of realtime radar weather data that a sim should be able to use, with enough money thrown at the problem.

 

24 minutes ago, irrics said:

I actually think they should consider a move away from worrying about matching real world conditions out the window at a given moment and just worry about having real world realistic and believable weather in the Sim itself if it would help. 


I think the problem is more to do with a narrow focus on a specific weather station and very little attempt look at the wider picture or to extrapolate what's happening between sites.
Rather than ditch trying to match what's going on live outside the window, a better method may be to take a macro view of a continent's weather, e.g.
https://www.windy.com/-Clouds-clouds?clouds,49.525,-4.878,5

Check out all of the layer options on the menu bar.
Much more information provided than a simple METAR and TAF, with modelling of forecasted meteorological conditions rather than 'here's what the reported weather is at ground station X, now replicate'.
 

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