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what do you think may be the minimum req for the new sim ?

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Considering how well Aerofly 2 runs on a modern engine, I think the minimum requirements will be a lot lower than people expect. Though I do suspect a DirectX 12 generation GPU is required.

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If they are claiming 120fps @ 8K resolution, then there is a lot of headroom for acceptable performance. Frankly, a smooth 30fps @ 1080p resolution in even the most detailed areas would be a massive step up from what I am experiencing now in P3D v4 on my current i5 4690k @ 4.3Ghz/16GB DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GeForce GTX 770 powered system.

Edited by Christopher Low
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Christopher Low

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I dont think anyone is claiming anything at all, never mind 4K or 8K, 

Hands up anyone who is using either a 4k or 8k graphics card & matching monitor!

 


Robin


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Microsoft are not going to want to go to all the effort of developing something like this, which one assumes is also going to end up creating a base platform that can also be used for other endeavours such as Google Earth-style apps and programs, as well as probably other sims too, such as ship sim, train sim, truck sim etc, and then only have it capable of running at a half decent speed on the latest super-duper computer that maybe ten flight sim nerds have been forced into building because they had to in order to get FSX to run at 12 FPS with the sliders on the right when they had all their payware add-ons running.

They will want it to run really well on a fairly decent gaming computer and acceptably well even on Joe Average's mum's PC, because if it doesn't then nobody will buy it, and if it should turn out to be subscription based, then nobody will subscribe to it if it runs badly without you having spent three grand on a computer when you can get a console for 200 quid which will run all the latest games.

Edited by Chock
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Alan Bradbury

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I think statements that the sim will be streamed are unfounded.  The bandwidth of the majority of the U.S. isn't reliable enough to support that.  Also consider that net neutrality is quite dead and ISPs can throttle your stream to a trickle because in their opinion you're abusing their systems, etc, yada.  

Azure AI was used to develop the scenery, according to all statements from Microsoft.  Not one single statement indicates you must be connected to Azure to use the sim.  That's 100% supposition of the uninformed.

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Ed Wilson

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36 minutes ago, WarpD said:

I think statements that the sim will be streamed are unfounded.  The bandwidth of the majority of the U.S. isn't reliable enough to support that.  Also consider that net neutrality is quite dead and ISPs can throttle your stream to a trickle because in their opinion you're abusing their systems, etc, yada.  

Azure AI was used to develop the scenery, according to all statements from Microsoft.  Not one single statement indicates you must be connected to Azure to use the sim.  That's 100% supposition of the uninformed.

In addition not every country provide high internet speeds to support that.

And if you are located very far away from the streaming servers it would be inevitable to suffer from heavy stutters due to TCP / IP delays. 

S.

Edited by simbol

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What is the alternative? Base photoscenery installed on your local hard disk at rubbish resolution (when compared to the trailer)? If this is supposed to be a global simulator, even "rubbish" resolution would take up a colossal amount of hard disk space

Edited by Christopher Low
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Christopher Low

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They would certainly have to up the range of the streaming and optimize speed of delivery. I'm on a 500Mbit Fiber, with a very low latency and in relative close proximity to both Microsoft and Google data centers. Using either Windows Maps with Photogrammetry or Google Earth with the same, especially the flight simulation portion, its downright a mess. It clearly can't keep up even at slow 'flying speeds', to load in the terrain or photogrammetry.

Current approach is just loading your sim with big texture files and that's it. Not only will they be filling a lot of gaps with an interpolated interpretation of bad satellite data, which would mean much smaller files, maybe even re-using files if you can find similar gaps to fill, we also live in a digital storage age and compression techniques have come far. We don't know how the data sits on the local drive, could be very heavily compressed and then uncompressed when needed, could have improved techniques in terms of size versus looks. Well, just assuming here.

Really can't wait to see what they do.


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37 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

a global simulator, even "rubbish" resolution would take up a colossal amount of hard disk space

Uh... FSX is a global simulator and doesn't utilize a "colossal amount" of storage.  Same for Prepar3D, X-Plane.  It is possible to obtain photoscenery level of detail without using actual photoscenery.  I'm honestly stunned that anyone believes it not possible.


Ed Wilson

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Quote

FSX is a global simulator and doesn't utilize a "colossal amount" of storage

I was under the impression that the new Microsoft Flight Simulator was going to be using Bing photoscenery as the base terrain files?

Edited by Christopher Low

Christopher Low

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I am not under the impression of anything being known at this point.  While I agree that the sim areas shown in the video appear to be using custom texturing that is probably some form of satellite/aerial imagery... I do not know of any statement or other concrete information that indicates the entire world will be presented that way.  I also have seen no statements that indicate the scenery will be streamed.  The only mention of Azure is Azure AI which is a wholly different product than simple streaming.  By leaps and bounds different.

Too many claims, statements and assumptions are being made without anything to back them up.

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Ed Wilson

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6 minutes ago, WarpD said:

I am not under the impression of anything being known at this point.  While I agree that the sim areas shown in the video appear to be using custom texturing that is probably some form of satellite/aerial imagery... I do not know of any statement or other concrete information that indicates the entire world will be presented that way.  I also have seen no statements that indicate the scenery will be streamed.  The only mention of Azure is Azure AI which is a wholly different product than simple streaming.  By leaps and bounds different.

Too many claims, statements and assumptions are being made without anything to back them up.

I'm with you on the matter regarding Streaming vs Local storage of files. I don't think they are aiming for a streaming model.

Their streaming platform for games isn't even ready yet. The XCloud project (their streaming service for games) is coming in october and I don't think they would release a game to run exclusively this way, limiting a lot the number of users.

Edited by ca_metal

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2 hours ago, WarpD said:

I am not under the impression of anything being known at this point.  While I agree that the sim areas shown in the video appear to be using custom texturing that is probably some form of satellite/aerial imagery... I do not know of any statement or other concrete information that indicates the entire world will be presented that way.  I also have seen no statements that indicate the scenery will be streamed.  The only mention of Azure is Azure AI which is a wholly different product than simple streaming.  By leaps and bounds different.

Too many claims, statements and assumptions are being made without anything to back them up.

In the interview, he talked about the use of satellite imagery and then noted that there's a place in Nevada where there is none (area 51) and that the AI would procedurally generate it. The insinuation there is that large areas of Nevada that do have have satellite coverage would be there. 

So with that said, how could they accomplish that without using their coming streaming technology? I can't imagine them putting out a 500GB game, even if everything is super compressed and low resolutions. 

I guess we'll have to wait and see but I think this is more than a few localized big cities getting orthos. 

Edited by bonchie
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I do not understand the handwringing about streaming the scenery.

I’d be pretty surprised if there is no local caching. Perhaps you can even specify areas to store locally…

 

Who actually enjoys needing to have multiple terabytes of hard drives just for scenery? 

 

And a monthly cost?

People should recalculate how much they’ve spent on scenery add-ons over the years and figure out the real monthly cost over time… Not to mention that is not even scenery that covers anywhere near what this sounds like it will. 

Edited by irrics
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8 hours ago, Sethos said:

Considering how well Aerofly 2 runs on a modern engine, I think the minimum requirements will be a lot lower than people expect. Though I do suspect a DirectX 12 generation GPU is required.

Depends on how much eye candy you want. I'm sure there will be reasonable support for lower-spec machines. However, if you want realtime ray tracing -- which the new MSFS and the new "Scarlett" Xbox will support -- you're going to need something like an Nvidia 2080 class GPU with hardware support for ray traced effects.

Rrealtime ray tracing is the hot new thing in games. It can be used for aircraft surfaces (like the sexy shot of the plane in the hangar in the MSFS demo), for water reflections, and "God rays" in clouds. 

That feature may not be important for many folks. If you don't care about it, you can run a lower spec machine. But let's be careful about "oohing" and "aaahing" over the gorgeous visuals in the MSFS promotional video without taking this into account. For obvious reasons, MS isn't showing us what the sim will look like on a minimum requirement PC.


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