Nav data comparison: New FS vs Navigraph

[CaptainStraw 52]

As a disclaimer, I'm not familiar with the L.A. area, and I'm certainly no expert, just an avid flight sim enthusiast.

That said, one thing that I would like to see in the new flight simulator is updated navigational data and all it entails, including waypoints, VOR stations, beacons, ILS, etc. So I took the liberty of comparing one of the screenshots for the upcoming sim and recognized KLAX on the navigation map of the airplane, and compared it to the same area in the Navigraph desktop charts program (current AIRAC):

As I said, I'm no expert but you can see a few common waypoints, and it seems to me that the new sim shows quite a few more waypoints compared to the Navigraph map. Now whether they are just old waypoints that are not valid anymore or it is using a renewed navigation database, I have no idea. I should go into P3D and compare, but am away from home and my desktop PC for the next few days. Hopefully, someone can chime in.

 On the same topic, would you be willing to pay a monthly subscription for MS Flight Simulator if it included up-to-date AIRAC cycles?

Any input is welcome, and I apologize if the screenshot just shows waypoints from the old database.

[Torg Smith 31]

I would not be interested in a monthly fee. Especially if we were not getting a perpetual license. If they came out with a yearly game (2020, 2021, etc.) with a regeneration of the world and nav data with enhancements to the game, I would be ok with that.

I guess it would depend on how much custom work they need to do to generate the world from satellite data. If it is all automated, it should be a minimal workload. If they need to do a lot of manual messaging, it probably would not be feasible. Just updating nav data would not be good, as airports add and remove runways. You would want the world to change to match that. The places change regularly as well.

[FPStewy 538]

5 hours ago, jacf182 said:

On the same topic, would you be willing to pay a monthly subscription for MS Flight Simulator if it included up-to-date AIRAC cycles?

 

Monthly or I would prefer at least the ability for a single update so that for example I could update the simulator's AIRAC to match the navigraph's G1000, GTN750's, FMC's ect.. and everything would all be on the same page. I know I can do it with fsaerodate and navigraphs ect... but it's a pain.

[richjb2 195]

Be careful as to what your are comparing. 

The Garmin map is displaying approach waypoints.  Those waypoints may not be displayed on the Navigraph map at the scale displayed, and may not show at all.  

Every fix has a purpose, as defined in the FAA's 8260-2 Form. That fix could be low altitude fix, high altitude fix, approach fix, terminal fix (SID or STAR), holding fix, etc..  How it is charted and displayed depends on it's use.  A fix can have multiple uses, and even multiple holding patterns, a real gottcha in real-world flying since the holding patter coded in the FMS might be the hold that's depicted on the chart for the altitude strata that you're flying in.  On paper LO and HI IFR charts, approach and terminal waypoints are often not depicted unless they have a purpose on those charts.  Electronic application, fight sim and real world, have filters to display fixes at the appropriate scale level.  On Navigraph's new map, I cannot scale in low enough to see the approach waypoints.  On Jeppesen's Flight Deck app, I can scale (zoom) in and see those approach waypoints. 

I subscribe to both Navigraph and fsAerodata to keep both my navigation data and flight simulator data up-to-date, or at least as up-to-date as possible.  While it is not cheap, if you're a serious FS instrument pilot the cost is worth it. Since doing so, I rarely see discrepancies between the real charted data and what's in the simulator.  Possible exception is if I'm flying in a area where I have to use the Navigraph's Jeppesen chart and they are older than the nav-data cycle.  I can't afford a Jeppesen world-wide subscription, and ForeFlight is not quite there yet. 

On the other hand, if you're flying around VFR looking at pretty scenery, then perhaps not so much. 

Rich Boll

 

[CaptainStraw 52]

 

 

1

3 hours ago, richjb2 said:

Be careful as to what your are comparing. 

You are absolutely right. With only such a short teaser video we don't know anything for sure regarding how MS will handle nav data in the new sim.

I just wonder if that screenshot shows some improvement compared to current default navigational data for that specific area; if even some minor changes are evident, then we might have a little hope that indeed they're using new data instead of the old one from 2006. In the end, I guess we'll know more in the coming months.

It's just hard not to jump on the hype train when we've had an old engine for decades; some of us definitely need to learn to manage our expectations.

[PWJT8D 446]

I think the navigation data should not be compared to what Navigraph has but what FSX/P3D has. Load a G1000 in FSX/P3D that uses default navigation and go to the same area and see what you get.