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Number of 3D cities in MS2020? - use Earth View 3D to see them!

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4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

So it’s fair to assume that the list of 3D cities is the final one. Nothing added since 2014 for whatever reason.

No, it's not fair to assume that. The data in Bing maps is used for navigation and geolocation, whereas the data used in MSFS is more for visual aesthetics and immersion. It isn't necessarily the same exact data set.

It's possible that ASOBO might have access to data that isn't precise enough to use in Bing but works well enough for MSFS. We already know they're using a few custom landmarks like the Seattle Space Needle and the Pyramids. We just don't know yet how far they'll take that until the final sim is released. What you're seeing in the preview videos and screenshots is a work in progress.
 

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I would very much like to see a video over central London showing Tower Bridge, the Shard and Parliament so I can form my own opinion on how different it will be compared to Google Maps 3D London or even the real thing.

My other concern is what impact there will be on frame rates for a city where an alternative method has been used compared to one created using photogrammetry. Will it be worse or not?

Perhaps the differences will be so small I won’t notice but as things stand I would like to see a city I am familiar with so I can make a judgement.

 

You can't make a judgement on that now, because the sim is only in Alpha state. Like everyone else, including those in the Insider Tech Alpha, you'll have to wait for the day the sim is actually released to find out what London looks like.

I understand your concern, based on what's in Bing maps and what they have or haven't shown so far in previews. But there is simply no point in making assumptions about it right now. I'm pretty sure ASOBO knows London is an important city. 

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@Paraffin, I’ll bow to your greater knowledge. If they’re still working on the cities that have no photogrammetry data I’ll wait until the process is finished and some videos are released.

But you are making a guess about Bing maps and ASOBO. Might be right, might be wrong. Personally I’ve never used Bing maps as Google’s are brilliant. Pity with all of Microsoft’s power a deal couldn’t be done.

Maybe Google are working with L-M for P3D v5. 😁 Now wouldn’t that be a coup? 😉


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55 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Paraffin, I’ll bow to your greater knowledge. If they’re still working on the cities that have no photogrammetry data I’ll wait until the process is finished and some videos are released.

But you are making a guess about Bing maps and ASOBO. Might be right, might be wrong. Personally I’ve never used Bing maps as Google’s are brilliant. Pity with all of Microsoft’s power a deal couldn’t be done.

Maybe Google are working with L-M for P3D v5. 😁 Now wouldn’t that be a coup? 😉

They are working on every aspect of the sim, including the scenery. They won't finish the updates on the short term. It's a 10 years project, I'm confident we will see improvements on the sceneries until 2026 (they said they started the project on 2016, so I guess the project is aimed to be finished on 2026, when they will probably release a new version).

What I mean is, not eveyone will be happy with the v1.0 of the sim. There will be some issues. But in due time things will improve. 

On one of the interviews they categorically said the scenery on the new sim would be a dynamic feature. Every new data they get, would automatically update the scenery on the sim (that would include photogrammetry, photoimagery, mesh updates etc). They even mentioned they noticed some changes on the scenery since they started the project, because the imagery on Bing was updated.

About Bing Maps plans, you have to understand those things cost a lot of money, and if they don't have a larger coverage of photogrammetry is just because they don't need it right now. The new simulator isn't something that will change the roadmap of Bing development (at least I don't see why it would).

Edited by ca_metal
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@ca_metal, having to wait possible years to see improvements in some parts of the planet will be frustrating. We’re not all young people.

No one forced them to choose Bing. Maybe that was the only source available. I remain confused why so many US cities get the full monty but similar sized European and especially British ones have lost out. Southampton and Portsmouth is all we have. Bloody ‘ell! 🤨 Hopefully that will change.

My confidence will increase when I see more attention paid this side of the pond and I’m sure those in other parts of the globe will feel the same about their areas.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
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Some people will never be satisfied. I don't get how people can complain about the photogrammetry coverage given how gorgeous the graphics of the new sim will be outside those few photogrammetry areas according to what we have seen so far.

For me the photogrammetry thing is a minor feature of the new sim. The main groundbreaking innovation for me is the photoimagery combined with the azure ai which will lead to a global "True Earth" including authentic autogen. It will cover the whole globe, and from what we've seen so far, it looks fantastic all around the world.

The photogrammetry obviously can only cover an infinitesimal part of the globe - even if 1000+ cities would be covered. As someone already said, it's just the icing on the cake.

 

I will certainly not be frustrated because certain cities are not represented in photogrammetry. Instead I will enjoy what the new sim has.

 

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7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

So it’s fair to assume that the list of 3D cities is the final one. Nothing added since 2014 for whatever reason.

A few months ago, I asked on the Bing Maps developer forum if they’re still adding photogrammetry cities and whether they have a roadmap. This was their answer:

While there is no roadmap, the 3D cities are generated from the other oblique imagery data we collect.  That collection is gated by when and where our supplier can fly and collect that imagery so as you can imagine, we can't really commit to any specific area being available but I can say that we are taking that imagery in all the time.

So apparently they’re working on it. Also, I remember one of the devs said in an interview that Bing are currently adding new 3d places, some less known ones if I remember correctly (unfortunately I can’t find the source right now, I’ll check it when I find the time).

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7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I would very much like to see a video over central London showing Tower Bridge, the Shard and Parliament

In the preview event footage you can see 3d models of Tower Bridge, Tower of London, the Shard and the O2. Unfortunately, the skyscrapers in the City were only generic blocks and the ones at Canary Wharf were completely missing. But this might change.

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47 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@ca_metal, having to wait possible years to see improvements in some parts of the planet will be frustrating. We’re not all young people.

No one forced them to choose Bing. Maybe that was the only source available. I remain confused why so many US cities get the full monty but similar sized European and especially British ones have lost out. Southampton and Portsmouth is all we have. Bloody ‘ell! 🤨 Hopefully that will change.

My confidence will increase when I see more attention paid this side of the pond and I’m sure those in other parts of the globe will feel the same about their areas.

They choose Bing because the data is available for free to them, it's the same company developing both products (Bing Maps and MSFS2020).

The reason they covered cities mostly in the US is probably because it's the country they have more clients (my guess). MS is an American company, that would also be a good reason.

The thing and most important thing is, even without photogrammetry coverage, the cities are much more accurate than any other current simulator, even after you throw a lot of paid scenery add-ons on them. I wouldn't be so concerned about landmarks on London. I'm confident they will model the most important landmarks of the city. Also, the Azure A.I. will make the city look accurate enought.

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32 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

I wouldn't be so concerned about landmarks on London. I'm confident they will model the most important landmarks of the city. Also, the Azure A.I. will make the city look accurate enought.

London is the city I chose as it’s one of the world’s iconic capitals. Any scenery package worthy of its name should have it in its top 10. Of far more interest is how other U.K. cities are represented but those are down the pecking order as far as developers go. Thanks for your info.


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I read this thread with a little disbelief. Back to basics I am in the market for a flight simulator not a city simulator, not an animated National Geographic :laugh:.

From what we've seen so far, large cities, even "non photogrammetric" cities,  are significantly better represented than in today's sims .  If some cities are better modeled  at release than others, and if these cities are more in the US  than Europe or Asia, more in Spain than in France or Britain then what ?  Let's rejoice to have several hundreds PG cities, an unprecedented boon.   

Bing may be not as good as GE * but it is a MS product as is FS20. Why should MS  go to Google is a mystery to me . Knowing that both Google and MS buy their maps from external third parties (As LM for other applications than P3D).

 

  *There are places where Bing is better than GE BTW

 

 

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55 minutes ago, domkle said:

From what we've seen so far, large cities, even "non photogrammetric" cities,  are significantly better represented than in today's sims . 

What are you basing that on? Maybe I've missed something, but as far as I know, MS hasn't shown any public previews yet of cities that use only autogen buildings where they don't have photogrammetry data.


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I wonder how they will implement this bird's view photos they have in Bing Maps, as they are fixed to a specific distance(or with a very small zoom distance)

It is not photogrammetric or default satellite images, but 3D aerial images.8klLTlo.pngyqiCtOF.png.

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52 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

What are you basing that on? Maybe I've missed something, but as far as I know, MS hasn't shown any public previews yet of cities that use only autogen buildings where they don't have photogrammetry data.

Did you sleep when Paris was shown? :laugh:

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2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

What are you basing that on? Maybe I've missed something, but as far as I know, MS hasn't shown any public previews yet of cities that use only autogen buildings where they don't have photogrammetry data.

 

They have done so see this earlier post:

 

Here is an example from the Discovery series Ep 1. It's from Papa New Guinea although I wasn't able to find the exact place on Bing maps I am of the understanding it's not 3D mapped and this is all generated by AI.

 

JXrAfFe.png

 

 

Edited by highflyer2020

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