Matt Booty Interview - short mention of MSFS

[bonchie 2,305]

3 minutes ago, pracines said:

(so far) This new MSFS has hints of looking great in a few geographic areas (we already have that) , PBR (we already have that), HQ airports (we already have that). That hanger shot is something I would like to investigate, but I must suspect that if that is in sim, its at one special airport, for purposes of a "mission", possibly/likely as a video intro to a mission. 

It does not have any indication of real wx (who cares if the TS looks threatening if we have to purposely set that wx each flight, static wx is worthless except for screenshots), ATC (no IFR ever? or we fake it?), two basics. Again I could go on and on. 

Looks on the surface are not everything, SUBSTANCE in realism is what we need. 

I've been down this road of a new sim on the horizon so many times since the late 80's, and SubLogic/Microsoft was always the winner, until MS Flight. When MS pulled that stunt it did not work. I personally gave MS a chance to change course all the way to the end. However I can forgive and forget. 

Today I'm (we're) not fooled by ANY company including LM, LR, and MS --- ANY talk about appealing to "casual simmers" (the futile attempt to meld simmers & gamers-it wont work!) or gamers, even in the slightest, will fail. This should be a warning from this community to MS in a very loud voice. My hope is that we all can be united about this so MS will not be tempted to dumb down ANY aspect of this simulator. If they do keep it simple for beginners/gamers It will fail because beginners and gamers are unable/unwilling to support it.

Please don't get me wrong I want this new MSFS to be a success as much as anybody - likely even more than most, if not all, including the lead developer of MSFS.

You are being obtuse. We know more than you are letting on here.

The developers confirmed the weather is using real weather data. So you are wrong about that. There are also multiple scenes in the trailer not using areas with 3D scans that still look very good with autogen. So they've got solutions for that on some level. The world is not going to be flat outside of city centers. No sim except XP11 currently has anything close to the combination of PBR and dynamic reflections we saw in the scene of the A320 landing. The atmospherics we saw are only rivaled by DCS World in current tech.

You can also hear ATC in the background of one clip and from the voice, it's some kind of AI, not a recording of real ATC. So again, you are wrong about that. They also specifically confirmed there is flight planning.

There's a lot we don't know, but we know enough to start getting excited at this point.

[pracines 823]

1 minute ago, irrics said:

They've said, word for word, real weather powered what we saw in the video

please give the evidence I have not seen or heard this.

[bonchie 2,305]

5 minutes ago, pracines said:

You are misquoting me.

When you read carefully what I say in response to exactly what I responded to, then we can communicate.🙂

I'm not going through your post to carefully ensure I respond to every single thing you wrote.

If you want to clarify something, do it. Your posts, in general, all seem to be pushing the idea that "we already have all this," and I'm saying, generally, that we do not and certainly not in a next-gen engine in a congruent package that's not patched together with 50 addons.

Edited June 14, 2019 by bonchie

[irrics 1,517]

3 minutes ago, pracines said:

please give the evidence I have not seen or heard this.

I added it to the post above - it's from Phil Spencer in the PC Gamer interview.

 

From Phil Spencer direct in the PG Gamer interview:

I was like "you've gotta put that in the video because it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen". It's using real geographical data, real weather data, to give you the ability to literally fly around what looks like a living planet.

Edited 3 minutes ago by irrics

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics

[irrics 1,517]

2 minutes ago, bonchie said:

If you want to clarify something, do it. Your posts, in general, all seem to be pushing the idea that "we already have all this," and I'm saying, generally, that we do not.

Agreed!

...and also, what's wrong with the next gen Sim starting from a place of "offering everything we already have" --- and then adding a lot more?

 

I don't understand what people want.  

Some people seem so incredibly cynical, negative and just -- depressing.

Man alive..  C'mon guys.  This is GOOD NEWS!!

 

Even if this ends up being something you don't want, you'll still be able to keep using the Sim you use now.

This is a no lose situation!

Edited June 14, 2019 by irrics

[pracines 823]

1 minute ago, bonchie said:

I'm not going through your post to carefully ensure I respond to every single thing you wrote.

then I will ignore you too

[bonchie 2,305]

17 minutes ago, pracines said:

then I will ignore you too

Sounds good.

And considering that you are making claims that have been shown to be false already, perhaps you spending some more time reading people's posts would be prudent.

You clearly love FS2004 or whatever you are playing right now, so enjoy it. It's not going anywhere. Others want something more and we are willing to see where it goes.

Edited June 14, 2019 by bonchie

[pracines 823]

5 minutes ago, irrics said:

I added it to the post above - it's from Phil Spencer in the PC Gamer interview.

Ah I see- part 2 has been released, ok. Thank you. So that's a big one out of the way, still lots to learn about this.

I still think that the likes of that hanger shot or KLAX ramp is not a common sight throughout the whole MSFS world. But if it is, another big one out of the way....on to ATC..<GRIN>

[snglecoil 1,828]

52 minutes ago, irrics said:

Man alive..  C'mon guys.  This is GOOD NEWS!!

It is exciting and promising, yes.

...We won’t know if it is good news until it can be evaluated as a real working product. A slick trailer and a couple of snippets from an interview unfortunately don’t really prove anything. At the rate expectations are being built, there is bound to a massive letdown no matter how good this thing ends up turning out. 

[irrics 1,517]

1 minute ago, snglecoil said:

It is exciting and promising, yes.

...We won’t know if it is good news until it can be evaluated as a real working product. A slick trailer and a couple of snippets from an interview unfortunately don’t really prove anything. At the rate expectations are being built, there is bound to a massive letdown no matter how good this thing ends up turning out. 

Fair.

What I really mean about "good news" is simply the fact they are back in the space at all honestly.

Even if they release something that nobody in this specific interest niche wants (say maybe it's not Sim "enough"), I'd still say it's good news on the whole, as this entire genre benefits from big players, new players, more competition, more development, etc.

[Labbi85 14]

Unfortunately we simmers are just a few compared to other big games and we have to accept that when a company wants to develop something great, then they also have to invest into it great. And because Companys are not charities they have to make money which means they have to attract a lot of customers. They only can do this by making it easy and accessible for beginners and all we can hope for is that they also put a lot of details for realism into it which benefits us simmers as well.

[gpbarth 12]

8 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-10-the-big-xbox-interview-scarlett-cross-gen-halo-infinite-and-the-lack-of-fable

“We decided it would be a good statement to have Flight Simulator in there because it's a game with deep connections to Microsoft's roots - the first game we ever published - it makes a statement. But you could say it's a PC thing, the folks who get into them often buy specialised joysticks, throttles, multi-monitor setups. They're some of the most passionate about building rigs. But at the same time, we're also going to bring that game to Xbox consoles. Why? Because people want to play it on Xbox and we'll figure out a way to make it work. So, platforms, even competing ones, comes down to us following the players and seeing where they want that content.”

 

Does that help you guys understand the whole Xbox vs PC mindset? I also see another reference to the passionate slimming community. So the studio heads are aware it seems. No idea what that means or what they think the community wants and will deliver but I believe it to be a good sign they recognize this hardcore community exists. 

People are now gaming on laptops and tablets. They don't use joysticks, HOTAS controls, rudder pedals, etc. X-Box uses a controller.  Personally, I have no use for keyboards when flying. But then again, I want reality, not a game.

[pracines 823]

1 hour ago, Labbi85 said:

They only can do this by making it easy and accessible for beginners and all we can hope for is that they also put a lot of details for realism into it which benefits us simmers as well.

Attract customers by making it easy for non flight simmers? Just make it a "flight attendant sim" and they can pour drinks and serve food, but even that is very difficult in reality. How about make the flight sim: "a first graders first time on a plane sim" and one can just look out the window admire the scenery and PBR effects.

The question is what makes a flight sim easy and why should it be easy?

The UI can be welcoming and intuitive, but once in the sim it needs to be as real as it can be. 

The first iteration of Halo is not more complex and difficult than the new one. I personally would not be able to go into a Halo MP session and win. I would not expect to live for even a minute. Why should a flight sim be easy for a beginner? Halo is doing fine, but I ( a flight simmer ) cant play halo even close to as good as a gamer. So MS did not make halo easy for me, and its successful w/o me - a very complex MSFS could be successful without curious gamers too. 

Games get more and more complex, why does a flight sim have to get more and more simple? 

There are already older versions of flight sim that beginners can learn with. FSX-SE is a fine beginner sim and then they can move up to MSFS 2020 if they last or remain interested.

Let us who have been in this for 10 -20 years move on from simplicity for a change.💡 

Flight sims should not be easy anymore than real life flying....It needs to be learned, just like mastering a complex game. IF the desire to learn to fly in a complex sim is there, a beginner will take the time to learn, just like anybody else learns when the desire is there.

We may not be as numerous a group as the gaming industry has, but we are not as tiny as many may think. Though our voice may not be as loud as gamers, our silence (ignoring simple/easy flight sims) is much more powerful than the loudest shout from gamers.

[F737MAX 5,557]

51 minutes ago, pracines said:

The question is what makes a flight sim easy and why should it be easy?

The ability to get airborne, fly around a bit and make a decent attempt at a landing without crashing and burning immediately at or just after take-off.
Why? Because newbies to flight sim would lose interest rapidly if everything was as hard as trying to get going in a DCS Huey from a cold and dark state with no knowledge. That would kill of playability / demand and put the new sim in the proverbial bin.

Why do you think most Call of Duty and Battlefield franchise games have single player modes with easy, moderate and hard game modes?
Simple, if a new gamer could only take part in a 'Free-for-All' multiplayer match, then they would quickly tire of being constantly whipped by veteran FPS gamers. Kills interest in the game and means no improvements or follow-up games for everybody.

Microsoft is looking to get millions involved in the new flight sim for whatever ultimate reason. Why should us 'old hands' deprive new simmers from the latest and best experience because we don't want there to be a few options sliders  to make it easier for them?

22 minutes ago, Labbi85 said:

Our hobby will only stay or get strong when it gains more users and the only way doing this, is to make it easy for the casual gamer with the latest in technology and from there it has to be scalable to be as realistic as possible.

So please dont assume easy neccessarily equals to unrealistic 

Precisely this.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

A friend of mine said it best from hearing about this announcement. He grew up with Flight Simulator when he was young but grew out of it. He is now in his thirties and hasn't been into MSFS since his teens. He does love XBox and Grand Theft Auto. When he heard about the latest announcement absolutely he wants the XBox verson for old times sake, it is just enough to get him back into it but without getting heavily invested in it. 

This is why a Console version would work too. Lots of now inactive flight simmers would use the XBox Version just to relive their youth.