FlightSimLabs comments on MSFS 2020:

[shivers9 1,174]

17 minutes ago, 188AHC said:

We don't know that some major players don't already have some sort of SDK to work with. 

Anyone is welcome to prove this either way. 

We don't know that some major players do already have some sort of SDK to work with. 

Anyone is welcome to prove this either way.

There are more things to be considered here than just a big cheer and a toast to the King.

 

[kingm56 1,023]

17 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Okay Rick, let’s assume there will be an SDK for argument’s sake. We already have a 64-bit sim with P3D v4 with v5 probably within a year.

Apart from the improved scenery FS2020 shows for the limited parts of the world in that video what other benefits are there to switch from P3D? It will take time for drivers, utilities and scenery to be made available assuming Microsoft make it as easy as LM do now. That will come at a cost to the user. For what? Swapping one 64-bit sim for another!

If the new one requires you to stream it rather than have all the data on your SSD that is a massive turn-off for many including me. I wouldn’t go near it.

If we still had a 32-bit P3D I could understand the attraction of a 64-bit one but that isn’t the case. Microsoft has come to the party too late. They should have done it 3 years ago before P3D v4. Th3y would have cleared up. They won’t now because so many people have invested so much with P3D. I’m staying with LM and I suspect I won’t be alone.

Going back to FSL the work required to convert their P3D Airbuses to Microsoft code could take them years given how slowly the products come out. I just don’t see the attraction of this new sim.

Ray,

 

Do you really think P3D V5 will be anywhere close to MSFS 2020?  As much as I appreciate P3D, they’re limited by foundational code that prevents them from making monumental progress. Conversely, Microsoft has a proven record of making prodigious leaps, as it relates to flight simulation.  Consider the difference between Flight Simulator 5.0 and FSX (10 years); Microsoft was able to completely transform the simulator in less than a decade.  Can you image what Microsoft can do with 13 years of technical growth?  I suspect MSFS 2020 will be as advanced to FSX as FSX was to FS 5.0. Now, compare FSX to P3D V4 (13 years) and you’ll note the changes are mundane by comparison.  In fact, our community has been forced to endure minor improvements while other genres are employing AI and Edge Computing to deliver the latest gaming experience.  In short, I think this hardly constitutes swapping one 64 bit simulator for another. 

 

I understand FSL’s perspective; speaking anecdotally, it no longer makes sense to procure software for a platform that maybe rendered obsolete in 6 to 9 months.  To that end, all my P3D/Xplane purchases are on hold until we glean more information about MSFS 2020.  Microsoft’s announcement has completely flipped 3^rd party development on its side; all the buzz is focused on Microsoft’s new platform and many seemed to have lost their appetite to fly in a VERY tired ESP environment.  After 2 decades, it’s time to move forward…this community deserves it more than anyone other!!  

 

One last comment, Microsoft has acknowledged this space is filled with people who procure copious amounts of hardware to augment their flying experience; I hope that statement translates into an SDK.    I do agree with you on that point, Ray.  It will be difficult to migrate without an FSUIPC like mechanism.  

[shivers9 1,174]

9 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Microsoft’s announcement has completely flipped 3^rd party development on its side; all the buzz is focused on Microsoft’s new platform and many seemed to have lost their appetite to fly in a VERY tired ESP environment.  After 2 decades, it’s time to move forward…this community deserves it more than anyone other!!  

I am sure a lot of folks agree right now. You are putting a lot of faith in a company who just did a ton of damage to Devs and companies income for the next couple of years. They are the ones who really have made the FSX, Xpain, P3D all worth while. If MS does have a SDK and are working in the background with these folks then no harm and no foul. If that is not the case then they may have killed the hobby or at least as we know it. It is early times and we shall see.

[LHookins 3,102]

My first thought was that if the ConcordeX is so far from release that they are putting it on hold for 18 months, just how finished is it?  

 

1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

To us old farts...

To help the younger crowd understand this, some of us have reached the age where we no longer buy green bananas.

Hook

[kingm56 1,023]

14 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I am sure a lot of folks agree right now. You are putting a lot of faith in a company who just did a ton of damage to Devs and companies income for the next couple of years. They are the ones who really have made the FSX, Xpain, P3D all worth while. If MS does have a SDK and are working in the background with these folks then no harm and no foul. If that is not the case then they may have killed the hobby or at least as we know it. It is early times and we shall see.

First, Flight Sim would not even exist without Microsoft! Second, P3D is based on ESP, which Microsoft developed and sold.  The fact that Microsoft never charged a licensing fee to use their product is antithetical to how most companies/software developers operate.  Third party developers exist because of Microsoft, not the other way around; thus, your notion that Microsoft should be loyal to these third party developers is misplaced. I think it’s important to remember those fact.  Finally, my ‘faith’ is based on facts and 30-years of Microsoft operating within this space.  I also believe your sentiments about Microsoft potentially killing this hobby are extremely overstated.  If a market exist, I promise you somebody will fill it;  If consumers reject MSFS 2020, they have P3D and Xplane as options.  This space is growing, not retracting, sir.      

Edited June 18, 2019 by kingm56

[Paraffin 2,197]

1 hour ago, Chock said:

Are we really? I doubt that. Don't be fooled by the name, every MS Flight Simulator version with a date in its name was released in the preceding year to its name: FS98 in '97, FS2000 in 1999, FS2002 in 2001 and FS2004 in 2003. And even if this were not the case, I'd put serious money on MS's new sim coming out this year, to allow MS to capitalise on the publicity wave they are currently riding.

This isn't a Microsoft Flight Simulator with a date in its name.

The official page for the sim on xbox.com (including the PC release) names it as "Microsoft Flight Simulator." That's also the text in the logo. No date as part of the name.

We can call it Microsoft Simulator 2020 or anything else to avoid confusion with earlier versions, but Microsoft is calling it "Microsoft Flight Simulator" so I've been using the MSFS acronym.

I think this may be related to how MS is saying Windows 10 is the last named version, and it will all be Windows 10 going forward with updates. Same deal with other software publishers that are trying to move to a subscription model and not versions, like Adobe with Photoshop. I'm not implying with any knowledge that this will be subscription-based, but it's the trend away from version numbered updates.

So this may well be "Microsoft Flight Simulator" for now and forever in the future, for as long as MS supports it, and with whatever payment model they need to keep it in development.

[Chock 17,769]

2 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

This isn't a Microsoft Flight Simulator with a date in its name.

Never said it was, I'm merely pointing out the trend that historically, MS has got its FS products out early.

[shivers9 1,174]

2 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

First, Flight Sim would not even exist without Microsoft! Second, P3D is based on ESP, which Microsoft developed and sold.  The fact that Microsoft never charged a licensing fee to use their product is antithetical to how most companies/software developers operate.  Third party developers exist because of Microsoft, not the other way around. I think it’s important to remember those fact.  Finally, my ‘faith’ is based on facts and 30-years of Microsoft operations within this space.  I also believe your sentiments about Microsoft potentially killing this hobby are extremely overstated.  If a market exist, I promise you somebody will fill it;  If consumers reject MSFS 2020, they have P3D and Xplane as options.  Moreover, have you considered the alternative?  Microsoft might be giving these developers a platform to continue their craft for the next 2 decades.   

Your points and opinion are well taken. I guess being an American I have trouble having a big party and putting a crown on someone's head until I know a little about them. LOL If nothing else some interesting times ahead.

[Paraffin 2,197]

1 minute ago, Chock said:

Never said it was, I'm merely pointing out the trend that historically, MS has got its FS products out early.

Well, I'm sure the PC release will be out early as a test bed to thrash out the bugs before the Xbox release. I think that's one thing we can count on. 😉

[jbcallender 53]

Convenient reason to can the Concorde project.......which the longer it takes, the less relevant it is.

[YMMB 234]

Based on FSL's reasoning should they also stop development on everything they are working on because ....

Quote

we have to ensure that we align our business model with the significant development news that we received from Microsoft

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by YMMB

[Groovy_Kincaid 71]

35 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

First, Flight Sim would not even exist without Microsoft! Second, P3D is based on ESP, which Microsoft developed and sold.  The fact that Microsoft never charged a licensing fee to use their product is antithetical to how most companies/software developers operate.  Third party developers exist because of Microsoft, not the other way around; thus, your notion that Microsoft should be loyal to these third party developers is misplaced. I think it’s important to remember those fact.  Finally, my ‘faith’ is based on facts and 30-years of Microsoft operating within this space.  I also believe your sentiments about Microsoft potentially killing this hobby are extremely overstated.  If a market exist, I promise you somebody will fill it;  If consumers reject MSFS 2020, they have P3D and Xplane as options.  This space is growing, not retracting, sir.      

I’m going to have to agree with you 100%. A lot of developers never had to pay a licensing fee. I stated many years ago that Microsoft should have taken this approach to help support the current platform. It was a sunk cost for them. Addons then started to cost as much (or in some cases more) than the original platform.

Reading all the usual comments regarding 3rd Party Support, I can see some of them concerned regarding their margins. P3D developer license is probably the model I would have chosen if I was in charge. But the second anyone suggests DLC or an online marketplace, the everyone’s getting defensive. 

The world is changing as is the way we are entertained. Netflix was a game changer and an industry killer. I think the last surviving Blockbuster is in Alaska somewhere.

Developers got used to running the content show that any changes will have them making the comments that they are making. If there is a public SDK, or one made available, I am guessing there will be fees charged for access going forward. This only seems fair to me. We all chose our professions knowing risk and reward. The developers are/were profiting from a platform they didn’t contribute to. I also agree if it wasn’t for these developers, it would a boring world. I guess I wasn’t too happy about some of the comments coming from various developers. The impression I got is that Microsoft is evil because now their margins take a hit due to fees.

My point is people get too comfortable with what has been happening for the last 40 years. Microsoft has decided to do things differently. I think this will be a big leap forward. I still have questions about Flight Sim, but like the rest of us, they will be answered in time.

[LHookins 3,102]

5 minutes ago, Groovy_Kincaid said:

I think the last surviving Blockbuster is in Alaska somewhere.

https://gizmodo.com/theres-only-one-surviving-blockbuster-left-on-planet-ea-1833075071

"The last remaining Blockbuster brick and mortar store on Earth is located in Bend, Oregon, and it’s turned its rarefied status into a benefit, attracting tourists and selling its own signature craft beer."

The one in Perth recently closed, leaving just the one in Oregon.

You got me curious, so I checked it out. 🙂

Hook

[Groovy_Kincaid 71]

5 minutes ago, LHookins said:

https://gizmodo.com/theres-only-one-surviving-blockbuster-left-on-planet-ea-1833075071

"The last remaining Blockbuster brick and mortar store on Earth is located in Bend, Oregon, and it’s turned its rarefied status into a benefit, attracting tourists and selling its own signature craft beer."

The one in Perth recently closed, leaving just the one in Oregon.

You got me curious, so I checked it out. 🙂

Hook

I thought it was Alaska, should have known better. I live in the PNW area

[Greazer 1,320]

In time, it will be: the last remaining P3d user.