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FlightSimLabs comments on MSFS 2020:

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You can't say anything nice about Flight, Chock. You see what happens when you do.

Post anything you want in my thread.  I'm a fan of flight.

Does anyone get the impression that this was a good excuse to cancel the Concorde?

Hook


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FSL or any other dev would also have to consider that one day, LM will clamp down very hard on purchase eligibility for future prepar3d versions going forward. LM I'm sure accommodated many potential users with license wording, and catered to dev requests and working together, but all that can change in a heartbeat given their intended focused market. Then FSL and all others will be looking to other platforms, and if Microsoft is present, then they will need to decide witch path to take vs other platforms. Since Microsoft has long been held as the king for desktop FS, its would be beneficial to consider and even modify the business plan accordingly if they introduce their own marketplace assuming an SDK becomes available.  


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Let's burn that bridge when we get to it.  It doesn't affect me as I use the Professional license.

One possible reason for the Concorde's cancellation is that they're making it for the new flight sim.  One page that has been removed from the official site had some aircraft that might be available, and it included the Wright Flyer and the Concorde.  I didn't believe either at the time.  Now I'm not so sure.

Hook


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12 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

To make such a decision so soon after Microsoft’s announcement seems knee-jerk to me. I have suspected for some time that work on a 64-bit Concorde was taking a back seat to their Airbus work. Microsoft’s announcement makes it easy for them to halt work without having to explain why.

 

I suspect your are right Ray that the Concorde work was eating up resources that they would much rather put toward release of the A321.  I actually suspect they will wait on the A330 until more details emerge on Flight Simulator.  As for your comment on sales, the A321 is an easy buy for most who own the A320 and A319, the price is probably not going to be too high and many will jump.

Some interesting comments here about MS demanding a development fee for addons, that actually makes good sense from Microsoft to try and get in on the action of the addon market and perhaps they will bring some value by having a central distribution and update portal.  I my mind this will actually not hurt developers very much at all as many took advantage of the P3D Commerical licence to charge us more for the same product as FSX (essentially) and now they will just have to pay that premim to MS and keep what they would have normally make with an FSX release.  They could try to charge even more but I suspect there is a fairly steep fall off of sales when prices get too high for FS addons.

Edited by MarkW

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24 minutes ago, MarkW said:

I suspect your are right Ray that the Concorde work was eating up resources that they would much rather put toward release of the A321.  I actually suspect they will wait on the A330 until more details emerge on Flight Simulator.  As for your comment on sales, the A321 is an easy buy for most who own the A320 and A319, the price is probably not going to be too high and many will jump.

Some interesting comments here about MS demanding a development fee for addons, that actually makes good sense from Microsoft to try and get in on the action of the addon market and perhaps they will bring some value by having a central distribution and update portal.  I my mind this will actually not hurt developers very much at all as many took advantage of the P3D Commerical licence to charge us more for the same product as FSX (essentially) and now they will just have to pay that premim to MS and keep what they would have normally make with an FSX release.  They could try to charge even more but I suspect there is a fairly steep fall off of sales when prices get too high for FS addons.

There's been a statement from Andrew Wilson this morning on FSL forum. https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/22006-some-thoughts/&do=findComment&comment=163863

It's hard to gauge his true feelings about this decision and how much he's treading the party line. I know he's very passionate about Concorde but now that FSL is his main employment there is sense in what he says. Income has to be earned and that means selling bland, boring Airbuses. Concorde is the icing on the cake.

More will be known once this Microsoft sim appears and developers have a better idea how much work is needed to convert their aircraft. I can understand the sense in holding off Concorde development as they may not have the time to redo it again. But speaking personally I'm happy just for a version that works in P3D 64-bit. But that's just me.

Regarding Microsoft wanting some of the 3rd party addon pie didn't they try that with Flight and it was so unattractive to 3rd party devs they pulled out. I think they were getting less per sale than Microsoft which is ridiculous.


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57 minutes ago, LHookins said:

You can't say anything nice about Flight, Chock. You see what happens when you do.

Post anything you want in my thread.  I'm a fan of flight.

Does anyone get the impression that this was a good excuse to cancel the Concorde?

Hook

Whilst it is tempting to find reds under the bed so to speak where decisions are made, I'm inclined to think that what FSL said about their Concorde is the truth and that they genuinely are just putting the brakes on for a moment or two until they know more about the situation. Concorde, and especially one made by FSL, is a product which is without a doubt aimed at hardcore simmers; it's never going to be something that a casual simmer picks up for a bit of a laugh in a sale, so I have my doubts about the new MS Flight sim being the ideal platform for it anyway; P3D would seem to me to be a more natural place for it. Let's not forget that FSL did a bit of a straw poll for who would buy one if they made one and there appeared to be enough hardcore simmer saying yes to make it a goer, so its feasibility is not really contingent on the new MS sim anyway.

Funnily enough though, since we're in speculation mode here, before this MS announcement about the new flight sim, I kind of had the impression that there was 'something' going on in the world of flight sims, and it wasn't the FSL Concorde which made me think that, it was the Just Flight Boeing 747-100/200. That was slated for a release at the end of last year, at the Cosford show they were pretty much saying it was imminent, yet it is still not out there. Now I'm not suggesting this is because they have taken a left turn with it to shoehorn it into MS's new sim, but if there is any developer which has a history of getting behind new flight sims, it is Just Flight. They made add-ons for Aerofly FS1 and FS2, and for FSW, so I suspect very strongly that they are one of the devs MS has been talking to.

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Alan Bradbury

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Sounds good to me.

A little "blue sky" here... if you were Microsoft and you wanted to include a Concorde in the new sim, who would you choose to create it?  FSL seems like a good candidate.  It may not be a full study level sim, or it may have an option to allow it to be one.  Or the full study version may be DLC.  Lots of options at this point.

Hook


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2 hours ago, Chock said:

Absolutely I'm excited about it. I think it's great that MS are going back in the Flight Simulator arena.

And I'll tell you what is never too far from my collective recollection: Although MS Flight wasn't great in every respect and it had some things I personally wasn't a fan of, neither was it terrible. More importantly than this is, a very large contributing factor to it not taking off as it might have done, was one of the big third party developer bosses (and we all know which one I'm talking about) throwing his weight around saying he didn't like the TPD model which Microsoft were hoping to get going with Flight and that he wouldn't support it. These comments were very instrumental in turning people against Flight. I've certainly not forgotten that. 

..and that with Flight and FSW every new kid that came to the community sandbox with the new product in hand was told how word not allowed his new excavator was.

If a large group of people perceived as experts tell absolutely everyone that a certain product is bad, that will have an effect eventually. Nobody is questioning the meme, nobody asks if they have even used the product. Just look at MSFS, where the product doesn't even exist yet.

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3 hours ago, Chock said:

More importantly than this is, a very large contributing factor to it not taking off as it might have done, was one of the big third party developer bosses (and we all know which one I'm talking about) throwing his weight around saying he didn't like the TPD model which Microsoft were hoping to get going with Flight and that he wouldn't support it.

I am one who did not use Flight. I had no criticism of it and from a distance it certainly looked like an improvement over the FSX I was using at the time. But with only Hawaii it just did not pull me in; it just seemed too limited in terms of geography and available planes and did not enable the kind of flying I do. This was the factor that kept me away and not so much the comments of developers -- although these comments did influence me and reinforced my decision to wait. However, this time it is a different scenario. If all in the trailer is sincerely accurate, it is the whole world modeled in detail like never before in a base sim, there is weather (clouds casting shadows on clouds), there are a range of aircraft, and apparently there is navigational data. So this time, I am much more certain I will adopt this new platform. The devil is in the details but at this point I am quite optimistic - and also optimistic that Microsoft will allow 3rd party development. We will see. For now I am enjoying P3D, but with much less interest in purchasing further add on products, and looking forward to my next step in flight simulation.

Edited by Cognita
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Dan Scott

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A couple of points regarding what I read  here. 

A lot of what happens with developers hinges on what LM will do. Would V5 be the last version available to us or is it V4.X. Before people go off and get bent out of shape, we are not LMs target market and a multi billion dollar defence company won’t miss us that much.

If LM decides to stop selling to us simmers, that leaves Xplane, AF2 and MSFS left for developers to showcase their products. If LM continue to allow us to sim on their platform, then the above is null and void.

However, MSFS will have more potential exposure due to its marketplace than the other ones. Why does this matter? Because, developers who are on board will be able to sell their products on a common market in a closed environment. Microsoft can use their own DRM if necessary to prevent piracy. The potential exposure that developers will have will be incredible.

I see two models. Microsoft could approach, say FSL and say, we want to include your airbuses and Concorde for users to purchase.

Model 1- Microsoft pays FSL an annual fee, discounted of course for the rights to use said products. Microsoft pockets the difference.

Model 2- FSL pays Microsoft a royalty for every product sold.

These are the only models that I see working.

What about the hardcore simmer vs. the soft core simmer? I would suspect Microsoft to have a tiered pricing model dependent on the complexity of the simulated aircraft.

These models work for aircraft, for airports or other scenery (if required), I suspect a flat fee or royalty to exchange hands.

This model model might become more effective because hi fidelity products would probably be purchased more than some of the lower end stuff. For sceneries in which there are multiple developers, you may see some drop there offerings due to the other developer offering the better product.

 We might also see the end of developers reworking previous products and selling at full price again.

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Fond Imaginings:

P3D v5 will use the same tech as MSFS and has/is being developed in tandem. Lockheed Martin want to separate from the flight sim market as they believe this reflects on the serious side of their sim.


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16 hours ago, Groovy_Kincaid said:

we are not LMs target market and a multi billion dollar defence company won’t miss us that much.

Thanks for reminding everyone about this. I had said this before, we are what every other big developer wanted paid beta testers. 

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On the flip side, your always beta testing any software you use. It’s the nature of software use.


Luke Pype

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7 hours ago, rtodepart said:

Thanks for reminding everyone about this. I had said this before, we are what every other big developer wanted paid beta testers. 

Your much more than welcome. 


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FS 2020’will be a showcase for Azure and Microsoft can’t afford to fail its release. FS2020 will be a success that’s a given.

I think Azure will be used to offload scenery calculations and ease fps on machines opening the highway to high resolution VR which is any sim graal. Maybe weather depiction will get enhancements as well but I fear, since there are already existing addons embedded into the trailer, that the Flight model engine remains the same old code since fs5 with wrong physics (execute a 60 deg bank angle perfectly coordinated and you will obtain 1.6 G instead of 2 leading to wrong turn radius and wrong aoa...). Let’s hope they pipes the pipes to let the dev use their own engine.

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