What We Want (Part 1)

[fs4fun 366]

On 7/20/2019 at 1:25 AM, Noooch said:

- please include cold and dark starts! Like FSW did if possible:

-simple mod, by highlighting the switches

- or realistic mod, with just the checklist

Yes that was pretty good. FlightGear also has this, both a proper checklist system where you verify items after doing your flows, and what they call a "tutorial" system where they highlight the panel items and walk you through the flows (this is done in the FG C172 for example).

The other thing FSW did was that their C&D implementation included what looked to me like a general purpose panel state definition and loading system where panel states were defined in JSON files. It looked like it could have developed into a common method of saving and loading panel states instead of making each aircraft developer hack together their own implementation.

[LHookins 3,103]

4 hours ago, Paraffin said:

The way to "fool around" as an amateur plane designer is with something like the PlaneMaker utility included in X-Plane.

I'm not sure how an XPlane user could get it right while a developer couldn't.  The weight and balance would be part of the object, and a developer who made aircraft would make the necessary floats or tundra tires for it.

It would be interesting to convert a tricycle gear plane to be a taildragger.  Something for the developer, not necessarily the end user.

Hook

[Paraffin 2,197]

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

I'm not sure how an XPlane user could get it right while a developer couldn't.  The weight and balance would be part of the object, and a developer who made aircraft would make the necessary floats or tundra tires for it.

That's exactly my point! A developer can enable those options, and many of them are doing it right now. I can fly a model of the DC-3 from one developer in an alternate version as a floatplane, which actually existed in small numbers. But that's just one developer who bothered to develop and test it.

As a counterpoint, I own the Carenado C208 Caravan in my sim. Where I live in the real world, I see those flying over my home on a regular basis in the summer, and they have floats! The PNW is big on float planes in the Summer.

But you can't buy a C208 with floats from Carenado, in either the FSX/P3D version or the XP11 version AFAIK. Presumably, because they didn't have the time or resources to model them and get the flight characteristics correct. Because that matters.

Assuming the developers will create and test all these different options and let the user choose is a great idea, but it assumes more work on the developer side than most will ever be willing to do. If that were possible they would be doing it now, because nothing in the architecture of current sims prevents it.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Paraffin

[LHookins 3,103]

Right now, getting that Carenado C208 with floats is totally impossible.  I'm suggesting something that would make it possible.  I don't envision a process whereby a user could swap the wheels for a generic set of floats, but one where a modder could create the necessary floats and publish them for others to use on the C208.

The end user doesn't have to worry about how it works.  This kind of thing is for the developers.  All you need to know is that you could swap the wheels for floats.  Someone with more experience would handle making the aircraft fly correctly.

Hook

[LHookins 3,103]

Anyway, you don't need to worry about how to implement it.  Such things will be handled by people above your pay grade.  They'll figure out how to make it all work and all you'll need to do is decide if you want to fly with floats.

Hook

[SteveW 1,792]

6 hours ago, LHookins said:

Right now, getting that Carenado C208 with floats is totally impossible. 

See, floats are interesting! We get a point of balance shown in the plane schematic n the sim. It is the thing of computer programs to sort out all that, displacement volume of the floats and balance of course. Could be good.

[SteveW 1,792]

...something I wondered many years ago is that eventually in the GPU we provide the float CAD data including the material, and place it on a water object on planet earth, that then works out if it sinks or not on the fly.

[LHookins 3,103]

Steve's already thinking about how to implement it.  This is what happens when you're a developer. 😄

That's pretty interesting.  Maybe we *could* do a "generic floats" thingy with the possibility of scaling them to volume and length, then sticking them on a plane and putting it in the water.  

Another thing I thought of is for those who want to replace the radial engines on a DC-3, for example, with turboprops, once they are created, either by the original developer or a modder later, you could flip a switch and get the necessary engine swap and all the instruments all in one package.  The engine and propeller would all be implemented in the package along with any necessary instrument changes.  I hope no one ever does this. 😄

Hook

[Paraffin 2,197]

9 hours ago, LHookins said:

Right now, getting that Carenado C208 with floats is totally impossible.  I'm suggesting something that would make it possible.  I don't envision a process whereby a user could swap the wheels for a generic set of floats, but one where a modder could create the necessary floats and publish them for others to use on the C208.

The end user doesn't have to worry about how it works.  This kind of thing is for the developers.  All you need to know is that you could swap the wheels for floats.  Someone with more experience would handle making the aircraft fly correctly.

And how do you think Carenado would feel about that? They own the IP that they're selling, and their reputation depends on the quality of the products they have on offer. 

You're looking at this from the perspective of the end-user, where we all naturally feel that when we buy something, we have a right to do whatever we want with it. You're ignoring the developer perspective, where they want to sell a singular product that stands on its own merits, and hasn't been hacked up with user-made changes in the undercarriage, the engines, the gauges, or anything more than a different livery.

I'm projecting a bit here, because I'm not a payware aircraft developer. But I don't think I'm far off from how many developers might feel about this idea, as cool as it sounds from the user end. Even if the idea was technically possible, I'm pretty sure it would require explicit support from the developer to avoid conflicts with DRM protection (i.e. checksums not matching with a modified aircraft), and potential violations of EULA provisions about use of their copyrighted software models.

Now, if MS steps up and says "This is how it's going to work" and includes this feature in the new sim, then developers would have to buy into it. We're not there yet. This is all just Blue Sky thinking up cool ideas while we're waiting to hear more about the sim. If the MFS devs are reading these Avsim threads then at least they know the idea is out there.

[LHookins 3,103]

Carenado would have to build the ability to swap out landing gear into the model.

Is there some reason you don't want floats?

Hook

[Paraffin 2,197]

25 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Carenado would have to build the ability to swap out landing gear into the model.

Is there some reason you don't want floats?

Of course I want floats, and I'm disappointed Carenado didn't include them with the C208. I have to assume they ran out of time, or didn't have access to the data and real-world pilot feedback to do it properly.

Which is the point I keep trying to make. When someone puts up a YouTube video where they're flying the C208, that's Carenado's name on the plane, and they have an interest in making sure it looks good and flies well. Why would Carenado want to "build the ability to swap out landing gear into the model" if they couldn't control the quality of the end result? 

A utility that allowed end-users to paste on all sorts of mods -- not just floats but cartoon tundra tires, or swapping between radial engine and turboprops on a DC-3, or military FLIR panels in the cockpit -- wouldn't be the best presentation of a developer's hard work in in developing the model.

And when the aerodynamics and performance no longer "match the numbers" like the stock plane after adding the mods, or the mods break a stock plugin, guess who gets the tech support calls?

Edited July 23, 2019 by Paraffin

[anden145 2,285]

On 7/22/2019 at 6:39 PM, SteveW said:

Drag-n-drop your own cockpit design and everything else for that matter might be fun.

LOL I really like this idea. Could be interesting! 

The first thing that would happen, were that people would be adding floating-devices to a 747 and then complain, that the flight dynamics and handling characteristics were horribly wrong! 😄

(If nothing else, I would... )

Edited July 23, 2019 by Anders Bermann

[DaveS 144]

I would like to see proper light pollution simulated so we can't see millions of stars at ground level in a big city. 

Also would like the annoying stars visible before the sun is down effect to be fixed

 

[n4gix 4,947]

21 hours ago, DaveS said:

Also would like the annoying stars visible before the sun is down effect to be fixed

What's broken? I can often see stars before the sun has fully set...

[irrics 1,517]

19 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

If reading this thread doesn't scare Microsoft away, nothing will!

 

Very true.

Especially if they read too much stuff from add on developers who don’t want to adapt to the coming future.