Intolerable framerate under I7-8700k and RTX2080

[fluffyflops 1,858]

1 minute ago, RudiJG1 said:

And I still like it much better than FSX. Back on topic...

I'm running P3D 4.5 on an I7-8700k and RTX2070 with 16GB 3200Mhz RAM; the CPU is overclocked to 4.5 GHz, which was accomplished by simply enabling turbo boost via the BIOS on my MSI Z370 Carbon Gaming Pro MB. A smooth sim experience can be achieved easily...follow some of the good advice in this thread, particularly regarding AI traffic volume, and beware of road traffic altogether.

Fantastic. Please show me a video flying the fsl into Heathrow or Gatwick with the scenery slider at dense or higher and autogen on medium or high, it will stutter, you know it, I know it, we all know it. There is no magic pill or magic gfx card or cpu that will stop that. 

[AnkH 2,261]

I wonder why people really call 4.5 GHz on a 8700K "overclocking" it. You are aware, that this processor clocks from stock to 4.7GHz when only a single-core is loaded and the default all core turbo is 4.3GHz? So, I can assure you, those 200MHz more on all six cores will change nothing. It is 7% more, even if 100% of this "overclock" is translated into FPS (which is usually not the case), this would mean that you get 21.5 instead of 20FPS or 32 instead of 30FPS. Honestly, for 7% I would not even invest a second for overclocking...

Besides that, if the 8700K is "overclocked" to 4.5GHz the classic way (by using a fixed turbo number in the BIOS), it would mean that you basically reduce the stock single-core turbo down from 4.7 to 4.5GHz and the two-core turbo down from 4.6GHz to 4.5GHz. Just that you know what system builders sold you by advertising they overclocked the 8700K to 4.5GHz...

BUT: those FPS numbers the TS reports in comparison to his old 5820K simply makes no sense, something must be wrong in his setup. I would first like to know how he did the hardware upgrade: did it include a complete re-installation of P3D including the deletion of all generated files on C:\ after uninstalling it? The reason I ask: it sounds to me a little bit like he is running the prepar3d.cfg of the 5820K on the novel 8700K, in the worst case even with the old shaders...

[Bob Scott 7,720]

1 hour ago, fluffyflops said:

you can dress it up all you want.  Its the same engine. Its looks a bit better than fsx and it doesnt oom. but its the same engine no matter what you say. if you think by putting in a 1080ti and a 8700k and thinking that will solve everything you are deluded 

I wish it was a different scenerio but its not. 

Moving up to an 8700K won't solve "everything" but it will enable incremental improvement.  The same engine?  No, it is a derivative but with many improvements.  DX11 vs DX9 is a huge step up, taking workload off the CPU and moving it to the massively parallel GPU architecture designed to do just that...not the same.  Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same.  Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same.  Support for virtual reality display systems...not the same.

You can dress up the many things you don't understand about the software all you want, but you still have it dead wrong.

[Bob Scott 7,720]

49 minutes ago, AnkH said:

I wonder why people really call 4.5 GHz on a 8700K "overclocking" it. You are aware, that this processor clocks from stock to 4.7GHz when only a single-core is loaded and the default all core turbo is 4.3GHz? So, I can assure you, those 200MHz more on all six cores will change nothing. It is 7% more, even if 100% of this "overclock" is translated into FPS (which is usually not the case), this would mean that you get 21.5 instead of 20FPS or 32 instead of 30FPS. Honestly, for 7% I would not even invest a second for overclocking...

Besides that, if the 8700K is "overclocked" to 4.5GHz the classic way (by using a fixed turbo number in the BIOS), it would mean that you basically reduce the stock single-core turbo down from 4.7 to 4.5GHz and the two-core turbo down from 4.6GHz to 4.5GHz. Just that you know what system builders sold you by advertising they overclocked the 8700K to 4.5GHz...

Agreed that 4.5 is a very mild, even trivial overclock, but since P3D tasks all of your cores, 4.5 *is* still an overclock over the 4.3GHz you'd get with the stock turbo.  Certainly 4.5 GHz is below what the chip is generally capable of (nearly all can do 4.9, and most can push 5.0).  But, as one person posted above, that mild overclock came essentially free...set the all core clock multiplier to 4.5 and touch nothing else...easy peasy.

4.5 GHz on an 8th or 9th Gen intel CPU with six or eight physical cores can do the job quite well with P3Dv4, though.  All sliders to the right?  Well, no, but a good experience nonetheless.

As far as scoffing at 7%...I stopped chasing frame rates and look now at maximizing headroom between the core 0 utilization and 100%.  The more free processing headroom I have, the fewer stutters I see, as the CPU has the ability to absorb more/bigger spikes in workload without slowing the frame production down below my locked (30 fps) framerate.  I'll take that free 7% any day.

Regards

[swiesma 625]

Even the best hardware won’t get you better single core performance. And that’s the key here. 

Yeah they pimped the old engine quite good. But it is still an old engine. Don’t know why people here fight so hard against this. That’s just a matter of fact?!

[swiesma 625]

37 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Moving up to an 8700K won't solve "everything" but it will enable incremental improvement.  The same engine?  No, it is a derivative but with many improvements.  DX11 vs DX9 is a huge step up, taking workload off the CPU and moving it to the massively parallel GPU architecture designed to do just that...not the same.  Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same.  Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same.  Support for virtual reality display systems...not the same.

You can dress up the many things you don't understand about the software all you want, but you still have it dead wrong.

Well. Then why does your all new super engine still produce like 15 FPS on a high end system that can run modern titles in 4K with a steady 60 FPS?

Dress this up!

[newtie 533]

26 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Agreed that 4.5 is a very mild, even trivial overclock, but since P3D tasks all of your cores, 4.5 *is* still an overclock over the 4.3GHz you'd get with the stock turbo.  Certainly 4.5 GHz is below what the chip is generally capable of (nearly all can do 4.9, and most can push 5.0).  But, as one person posted above, that mild overclock came essentially free...set the all core clock multiplier to 4.5 and touch nothing else...easy peasy.

4.5 GHz on an 8th or 9th Gen intel CPU with six or eight physical cores can do the job quite well with P3Dv4, though.  All sliders to the right?  Well, no, but a good experience nonetheless.

As far as scoffing at 7%...I stopped chasing frame rates and look now at maximizing headroom between the core 0 utilization and 100%.  The more free processing headroom I have, the fewer stutters I see, as the CPU has the ability to absorb more/bigger spikes in workload without slowing the frame production down below my locked (30 fps) framerate.  I'll take that free 7% any day.

Regards

I'm running a 4770k @ 4.4 with very light settings, HT on, triple 27 inch monitors, with an AM, solid 30fps with RTSS. I could not be happier. As stutter free as it's gonna get. I have been doing this for well over 25 years.

I was going to tell Adam Breed at the Expo that if LM did nothing for the next several years, I would be fine with that.

But, it was three deep to get to him.

Looks like I'll have to wait until Las Vegas... :>)

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

[Bob Scott 7,720]

3 minutes ago, swiesma said:

Even the best hardware won’t get you better single core performance. And that’s the key here. 

Yeah they pimped the old engine quite good. But it is still an old engine. Don’t know why people here fight so hard against this. That’s just a matter of fact?!

But of course better hardware will give you better single-core performance.  MUCH better, in fact.  Are you really suggesting that a 2 GHz mobile Pentium-M CPU rivals a 5.1 GHz 9900K in single-core throughput?  Each generation of new CPUs has produced improvements in single-core performance, through the combined effects of increasing the clock rate, and also by improving the instruction pipelining to increase the average instructions-per-clock cycle (IPC). 

The "engine" is old, yes, but not poorly-designed.  It's really quite remarkable how well the real-time flight dynamics work...the process of approximating aircraft performance is quite good, contrary to the opinions of some of the back-alley pundits.  Scenery design is somewhat hobbled by backwards-compatibility constraints, but it has still progressed a lot over the years, and without a massive breakpoint that renders everyone's add-ons useless. 

Sure, if we started with a clean whiteboard today, we'd do some things differently, and that'll probably happen at some point, after which we'll have to wait for *years* to get back the kinds of add-on aircraft and scenery options we have today.

 

[fluffyflops 1,858]

2 hours ago, swiesma said:

Well. Then why does your all new super engine still produce like 15 FPS on a high end system that can run modern titles in 4K with a steady 60 FPS?

Dress this up!

I agree.  

[fluffyflops 1,858]

2 hours ago, newtie said:

I'm running a 4770k @ 4.4 with very light settings, HT on, triple 27 inch monitors, with an AM, solid 30fps with RTSS. I could not be happier. As stutter free as it's gonna get. I have been doing this for well over 25 years.

I was going to tell Adam Breed at the Expo that if LM did nothing for the next several years, I would be fine with that.

But, it was three deep to get to him.

Looks like I'll have to wait until Las Vegas... :>)

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

Fantastic,

once again let's see a video with settings half decent with a payware a/c like the fsl or 777 into lhr, lax, sfo, lgw, hkg, mad, ams, yyz. 

It will no doubt look better than fsx, hell you'll even get there without an oom (which is a god send)  but it will still stutter like a rabid dog all the way down the ils like it did in fsx.  'Multicore, Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same. Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same. Support for virtual reality display systems..'  these are all wonderful and amazing selling points, and they even make my pants wet,

but no matter what, it will still stutter and have gash proformance and you know it. 

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by fluffyflops

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

3 minutes ago, fluffyflops said:

Fantastic,

once again let's see a video with settings half decent with a payware a/c like the fsl or 777 into lhr, lax, sfo, lgw, hkg, mad, ams, yyz. 

It will no doubt look better than fsx, hell you'll even get there without an oom (which is a god send)  but it will still stutter like a rabid dog all the way down the ils like it did in fsx.  'Multicore, Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same. Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same. Support for virtual reality display systems..'  these are all wonder and make my pants wet, but no matter what, it will still stutter and have gash proformance and you know it. 

 

OK, you are overloading the camel... and you blame the camel (and its ancestors..) 

[fluffyflops 1,858]

Just now, Bert Pieke said:

OK, you are overloading the camel... and you blame the camel (and its ancestors..) 

No people on here think the camel has been genetically modified by science or tony Robins.  It's still a dirty  old camel with a snazzy saddle thats all 

[newtie 533]

41 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

OK, you are overloading the camel... and you blame the camel (and its ancestors..) 

😂

[Bob Scott 7,720]

An overloaded camel trying to get in to London Heathrow.  I can't top that.

 

[newtie 533]

Those animals have a mind of their own,,,😆