JerryC

Intolerable framerate under I7-8700k and RTX2080

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys,

It has troubled me a lot that for all these years no matter how I upgrade my computer I receive very limited results on P3D. I recently got my PC upgrade to a system built on I7-8700k and RTX2080 with 16GB 3000Mhz RAM, running on liquid cooling. Previously it was on GTX980 and I7-5820k at 3.7ghz where P3D actually runs faster.

While all other games have been working great with this config, I am constantly getting 15fps on any angle on P3DV4.4. An example of such a running scenario includes the list of softwares below:

FSL320

FSDT Charlotte

REX5 Skyforce+ Environmental force, Aerotacto preset

PTA 2.63 with preset by Matt Davies, 12/2018

GSXV2 and active sky

UT traffic live at 60% density

 

 

My P3D settings are affixed. Could anybody help me understand what went wrong? Your help is greatly appreciated!

 

b9db6f802fdf03aec830970f65af2435-full.pn

a28287ffcd2192d0a13904a8e40fe6a6-full.pn

b195af7cb8ead83b9be183213eea9ba7-full.pn

1f2ceeb384452a2151d7f008a8c75cfc-full.pn

Edited by JerryC

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In Scenery Objects...

All settings to zero with complexity at Normal.

Water resolution to Normal.

Special Effects to middle setting.

Disable HDR.

Uncheck Dynamic Lighting.

Shadow quality to low.

Shadow casting...

        Internal/External cast/receive only; uncheck everything else.

Cloud coverage density to medium.

Disable UT traffic.

What is your frame rate after doing this?

Overclock?

HT on/off?

Mark

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, newtie said:

In Scenery Objects...

All settings to zero with complexity at Normal.

Water resolution to Normal.

Special Effects to middle setting.

Disable HDR.

Uncheck Dynamic Lighting.

Shadow quality to low.

Shadow casting...

        Internal/External cast/receive only; uncheck everything else.

Cloud coverage density to medium.

Disable UT traffic.

What is your frame rate after doing this?

Overclock?

HT on/off?

Mark

 

 

 

Then why not just go back to FSX?

I am 5 years into my system and preparing to build new! Obviously aimed at latest P3D. Looking at the hardware and software costs, especially GPU, then looking at the topics discussions here, and focusing on the increments!  Increment of difference in the sim vs increment of cost difference.  When I see issues and responses like this.....  I head to sleep and hope I don't toss and turn all night!

 

 

 

Edited by fppilot
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Posted (edited)

@JerryC what is the 8700K clock speed set to right now?  Overclock that thing to 4.5 Ghz and you should be able to do 25-30 fps with those heavy addons.

Edited by ryanbatcund

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I am flying in P3DV4.5. on a 4770K@4.2 + GTX1070 and rarely drop below 30 fps.  So it can be done..

Whenever I revisit FSX, I notice the autogen popping up in clumps and quickly go back to P3D..  :cool:

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20 minutes ago, fppilot said:

Then why not just go back to FSX?

This is a troubleshooting procedure, not advocacy for running with the entire system completely dumbed-down. 

Dial everything back, demonstrate that things work well that way, then add things back in incrementally to see what's hitting the system so hard.

Speaking of dialing things back, having shadow cast distance at max is also not helping.

 

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Posted (edited)

I got performance boost upgrading P3D to 4.5. so i suggest doing that.

Edited by HeLord

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Posted (edited)

It makes bugger all difference if you have an, 8700k or 6 1080tis in sli the sim is an old dog.  Yes LM have spent hours and hours doing thier best, it's even 64 bit, but it still is and ALWAYS WILL BE  the fsx core engine. No super duper hardware will EVER change that no matter what.  The more the sliders you push the more ai you put it, the more 4k you run , the more cpu hungry addons you choose (fsl) it makes no difference. Its a 20 year old engine, that was dumped  u ms/aces, it's as simple as that, no matter what market spin LM do,  no matter how many affinty masks cpu graphs people can upload, it's STILL a 20 year old dog dressed up and marketed as a new puppy.  Just because you bought a nice new rig doesnt mean you have changed the terribly coded fsx engine.  Try selling that to the Saudis and see what happens. 

Edited by fluffyflops
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5 hours ago, fppilot said:

Then why not just go back to FSX?

I am 5 years into my system and preparing to build new! Obviously aimed at latest P3D. Looking at the hardware and software costs, especially GPU, then looking at the topics discussions here, and focusing on the increments!  Increment of difference in the sim vs increment of cost difference.  When I see issues and responses like this.....  I head to sleep and hope I don't toss and turn all night!

@newtie just tried to troubleshoot OP's system. He did not wanted him to fly like that but to find what exactly does impact his system.

There are not few here (and on other forums aswell) who think that by buying the best HW of what the market can offer, you can load your sim with Photoreal sceneries, throw in UHD clouds, 2 or 3 sandwiched shader mods, move all sliders to the right and in the end wondering about 5 FPS... <- NOTE: This is not related to the OP!!!

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Even the computer that runs our simulation of the universe would have issues running P3D in some situations 😉

 

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Hi Folks,

While I just finished my new (realize not the latest and greatest) i7700k Delid @ 5Ghz with a top end GTX1070ti over the weekend (haven't loaded P3D yet) - my old i2700k @ 4.7Ghz with a top end GTX970 still runs P3D pretty handily at well above 30FPS in all but the most dense scenery situations. My sliders are set more to the high side. It sounds like you have a problem. CPU clock speed is still your biggest bang for the buck - if it's not OC'd - it should be. High AI Traffic volumes would be high on my "suspect" list as well...

Regards,

Scott

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10 hours ago, w6kd said:

This is a troubleshooting procedure, not advocacy for running with the entire system completely dumbed-down.

Thank you.

Someone who knows what they're doing got it.

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8 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

It makes bugger all difference if you have an, 8700k or 6 1080tis in sli the sim is an old dog.  Yes LM have spent hours and hours doing thier best, it's even 64 bit, but it still is and ALWAYS WILL BE  the fsx core engine. No super duper hardware will EVER change that no matter what.  The more the sliders you push the more ai you put it, the more 4k you run , the more cpu hungry addons you choose (fsl) it makes no difference. Its a 20 year old engine, that was dumped  u ms/aces, it's as simple as that, no matter what market spin LM do,  no matter how many affinty masks cpu graphs people can upload, it's STILL a 20 year old dog dressed up and marketed as a new puppy.  Just because you bought a nice new rig doesnt mean you have changed the terribly coded fsx engine.  Try selling that to the Saudis and see what happens. 

I'm tinkering with FSX again now as I set up a portable rig.  I haven't really touched FSX since P3Dv3 came out in 2015.  Four years of differences between FSX and P3D v4.5 when you put the two up side-by-side paint a pretty stark contrast, especially if you're trying to run a 4K display, or take issue with autogen popping up right in front of you, or want overcast that you can't look right through and see the ground, etc. 

This sarcastic fatalism...suggestions that we're all just wasting our time trying to improve our sim performance, that use of the advanced capabilities modern hardware has to offer is futile and can't make any difference, or that there have been no substantial changes to how the core software operates in 20 years is hyperbolic and, well, dishonest.  Just because it's written with a poor attempt at snarky wit doesn't make it even a tiny bit less dishonest and misleading.

 

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Posted (edited)

you can dress it up all you want.  Its the same engine. Its looks a bit better than fsx and it doesnt oom. but its the same engine no matter what you say. if you think by putting in a 1080ti and a 8700k and thinking that will solve everything you are deluded 

I wish it was a different scenerio but its not. 

Edited by fluffyflops

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45 minutes ago, fluffyflops said:

you can dress it up all you want.  Its the same engine. Its looks better than fsx and it doesnt oom. but its the same engine no matter what you say.

And I still like it much better than FSX. Back on topic...

I'm running P3D 4.5 on an I7-8700k and RTX2070 with 16GB 3200Mhz RAM; the CPU is overclocked to 4.5 GHz, which was accomplished by simply enabling turbo boost via the BIOS on my MSI Z370 Carbon Gaming Pro MB. A smooth sim experience can be achieved easily...follow some of the good advice in this thread, particularly regarding AI traffic volume, and beware of road traffic altogether.

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1 minute ago, RudiJG1 said:

And I still like it much better than FSX. Back on topic...

I'm running P3D 4.5 on an I7-8700k and RTX2070 with 16GB 3200Mhz RAM; the CPU is overclocked to 4.5 GHz, which was accomplished by simply enabling turbo boost via the BIOS on my MSI Z370 Carbon Gaming Pro MB. A smooth sim experience can be achieved easily...follow some of the good advice in this thread, particularly regarding AI traffic volume, and beware of road traffic altogether.

Fantastic. Please show me a video flying the fsl into Heathrow or Gatwick with the scenery slider at dense or higher and autogen on medium or high, it will stutter, you know it, I know it, we all know it. There is no magic pill or magic gfx card or cpu that will stop that. 

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I wonder why people really call 4.5 GHz on a 8700K "overclocking" it. You are aware, that this processor clocks from stock to 4.7GHz when only a single-core is loaded and the default all core turbo is 4.3GHz? So, I can assure you, those 200MHz more on all six cores will change nothing. It is 7% more, even if 100% of this "overclock" is translated into FPS (which is usually not the case), this would mean that you get 21.5 instead of 20FPS or 32 instead of 30FPS. Honestly, for 7% I would not even invest a second for overclocking...

Besides that, if the 8700K is "overclocked" to 4.5GHz the classic way (by using a fixed turbo number in the BIOS), it would mean that you basically reduce the stock single-core turbo down from 4.7 to 4.5GHz and the two-core turbo down from 4.6GHz to 4.5GHz. Just that you know what system builders sold you by advertising they overclocked the 8700K to 4.5GHz...

BUT: those FPS numbers the TS reports in comparison to his old 5820K simply makes no sense, something must be wrong in his setup. I would first like to know how he did the hardware upgrade: did it include a complete re-installation of P3D including the deletion of all generated files on C:\ after uninstalling it? The reason I ask: it sounds to me a little bit like he is running the prepar3d.cfg of the 5820K on the novel 8700K, in the worst case even with the old shaders...

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1 hour ago, fluffyflops said:

you can dress it up all you want.  Its the same engine. Its looks a bit better than fsx and it doesnt oom. but its the same engine no matter what you say. if you think by putting in a 1080ti and a 8700k and thinking that will solve everything you are deluded 

I wish it was a different scenerio but its not. 

Moving up to an 8700K won't solve "everything" but it will enable incremental improvement.  The same engine?  No, it is a derivative but with many improvements.  DX11 vs DX9 is a huge step up, taking workload off the CPU and moving it to the massively parallel GPU architecture designed to do just that...not the same.  Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same.  Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same.  Support for virtual reality display systems...not the same.

You can dress up the many things you don't understand about the software all you want, but you still have it dead wrong.

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49 minutes ago, AnkH said:

I wonder why people really call 4.5 GHz on a 8700K "overclocking" it. You are aware, that this processor clocks from stock to 4.7GHz when only a single-core is loaded and the default all core turbo is 4.3GHz? So, I can assure you, those 200MHz more on all six cores will change nothing. It is 7% more, even if 100% of this "overclock" is translated into FPS (which is usually not the case), this would mean that you get 21.5 instead of 20FPS or 32 instead of 30FPS. Honestly, for 7% I would not even invest a second for overclocking...

Besides that, if the 8700K is "overclocked" to 4.5GHz the classic way (by using a fixed turbo number in the BIOS), it would mean that you basically reduce the stock single-core turbo down from 4.7 to 4.5GHz and the two-core turbo down from 4.6GHz to 4.5GHz. Just that you know what system builders sold you by advertising they overclocked the 8700K to 4.5GHz...

Agreed that 4.5 is a very mild, even trivial overclock, but since P3D tasks all of your cores, 4.5 *is* still an overclock over the 4.3GHz you'd get with the stock turbo.  Certainly 4.5 GHz is below what the chip is generally capable of (nearly all can do 4.9, and most can push 5.0).  But, as one person posted above, that mild overclock came essentially free...set the all core clock multiplier to 4.5 and touch nothing else...easy peasy.

4.5 GHz on an 8th or 9th Gen intel CPU with six or eight physical cores can do the job quite well with P3Dv4, though.  All sliders to the right?  Well, no, but a good experience nonetheless.

As far as scoffing at 7%...I stopped chasing frame rates and look now at maximizing headroom between the core 0 utilization and 100%.  The more free processing headroom I have, the fewer stutters I see, as the CPU has the ability to absorb more/bigger spikes in workload without slowing the frame production down below my locked (30 fps) framerate.  I'll take that free 7% any day.

Regards

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Even the best hardware won’t get you better single core performance. And that’s the key here. 

Yeah they pimped the old engine quite good. But it is still an old engine. Don’t know why people here fight so hard against this. That’s just a matter of fact?!

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37 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Moving up to an 8700K won't solve "everything" but it will enable incremental improvement.  The same engine?  No, it is a derivative but with many improvements.  DX11 vs DX9 is a huge step up, taking workload off the CPU and moving it to the massively parallel GPU architecture designed to do just that...not the same.  Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same.  Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same.  Support for virtual reality display systems...not the same.

You can dress up the many things you don't understand about the software all you want, but you still have it dead wrong.

Well. Then why does your all new super engine still produce like 15 FPS on a high end system that can run modern titles in 4K with a steady 60 FPS?

Dress this up!

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26 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Agreed that 4.5 is a very mild, even trivial overclock, but since P3D tasks all of your cores, 4.5 *is* still an overclock over the 4.3GHz you'd get with the stock turbo.  Certainly 4.5 GHz is below what the chip is generally capable of (nearly all can do 4.9, and most can push 5.0).  But, as one person posted above, that mild overclock came essentially free...set the all core clock multiplier to 4.5 and touch nothing else...easy peasy.

4.5 GHz on an 8th or 9th Gen intel CPU with six or eight physical cores can do the job quite well with P3Dv4, though.  All sliders to the right?  Well, no, but a good experience nonetheless.

As far as scoffing at 7%...I stopped chasing frame rates and look now at maximizing headroom between the core 0 utilization and 100%.  The more free processing headroom I have, the fewer stutters I see, as the CPU has the ability to absorb more/bigger spikes in workload without slowing the frame production down below my locked (30 fps) framerate.  I'll take that free 7% any day.

Regards

I'm running a 4770k @ 4.4 with very light settings, HT on, triple 27 inch monitors, with an AM, solid 30fps with RTSS. I could not be happier. As stutter free as it's gonna get. I have been doing this for well over 25 years.

I was going to tell Adam Breed at the Expo that if LM did nothing for the next several years, I would be fine with that.

But, it was three deep to get to him.

Looks like I'll have to wait until Las Vegas... :>)

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

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3 minutes ago, swiesma said:

Even the best hardware won’t get you better single core performance. And that’s the key here. 

Yeah they pimped the old engine quite good. But it is still an old engine. Don’t know why people here fight so hard against this. That’s just a matter of fact?!

But of course better hardware will give you better single-core performance.  MUCH better, in fact.  Are you really suggesting that a 2 GHz mobile Pentium-M CPU rivals a 5.1 GHz 9900K in single-core throughput?  Each generation of new CPUs has produced improvements in single-core performance, through the combined effects of increasing the clock rate, and also by improving the instruction pipelining to increase the average instructions-per-clock cycle (IPC). 

The "engine" is old, yes, but not poorly-designed.  It's really quite remarkable how well the real-time flight dynamics work...the process of approximating aircraft performance is quite good, contrary to the opinions of some of the back-alley pundits.  Scenery design is somewhat hobbled by backwards-compatibility constraints, but it has still progressed a lot over the years, and without a massive breakpoint that renders everyone's add-ons useless. 

Sure, if we started with a clean whiteboard today, we'd do some things differently, and that'll probably happen at some point, after which we'll have to wait for *years* to get back the kinds of add-on aircraft and scenery options we have today.

 

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2 hours ago, swiesma said:

Well. Then why does your all new super engine still produce like 15 FPS on a high end system that can run modern titles in 4K with a steady 60 FPS?

Dress this up!

I agree.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, newtie said:

I'm running a 4770k @ 4.4 with very light settings, HT on, triple 27 inch monitors, with an AM, solid 30fps with RTSS. I could not be happier. As stutter free as it's gonna get. I have been doing this for well over 25 years.

I was going to tell Adam Breed at the Expo that if LM did nothing for the next several years, I would be fine with that.

But, it was three deep to get to him.

Looks like I'll have to wait until Las Vegas... :>)

Cheers,

Mark

 

 

Fantastic,

once again let's see a video with settings half decent with a payware a/c like the fsl or 777 into lhr, lax, sfo, lgw, hkg, mad, ams, yyz. 

It will no doubt look better than fsx, hell you'll even get there without an oom (which is a god send)  but it will still stutter like a rabid dog all the way down the ils like it did in fsx.  'Multicore, Changes to move scenery and terrain processing onto multiple parallel threads, enabling modern multi-core CPUs to distribute even more workload away from the primary thread...not the same. Use of advanced material rendering and lighting...not the same. Support for virtual reality display systems..'  these are all wonderful and amazing selling points, and they even make my pants wet,

but no matter what, it will still stutter and have gash proformance and you know it. 

 

Edited by fluffyflops

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