JerryC

Intolerable framerate under I7-8700k and RTX2080

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1 hour ago, TheBoom said:

Well I can’t speak for Microsoft or any other software developer, but these benchmarks were done by 3rd parties who had access to the chips and they’re usually spot on. It’s hard to fake hardware performance. 

I disagree, all they can show you are screenshots and they are utterly easy to fake. As far as I remember, almost all CPU performance leaks over the last 10y (at least) have been proven wrong in most cases, especially if they were "leaked" that much in advance. Or, they were spot on but only in such a nitpicked scenario that it has no or only very little significance on the daily scenarios most of us work with (e.g. the performance in the simulator).

Or could you link to the leak you are talking about? If it is about the Ice Lake notebook CPU with the name Core i7-1065G7, then above applie. In PassMark, the current leader is a 9900 in the single core benchmark, a 3700X reaches 2942 points (12% more than i7-1065G7). In the multicore benchmark, the leader is the 3900X with a whopping 32220 points (315% more than i7-1065G7(!!!)). Then, the 3900X with 16 cores is about three times faster in PassMark than the four core i7-1065G7 and yet you conclude that Intel is going back to 4 cores HT?

Seriously, where do you take your "info" from? It does not fit at all...

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I'm no expert but there will come a time where we have to address the limits of the sim, from everything I've read in the P3D forums they are still using the core Visual Studio 2015 but devs are "cheating" or focusing more rand more on the latest redistributables, technically it should be better but think of it like connecting your garden hose to fire hydrant and wondering why you don't get the same results as a fire hose. From following VS2017 and VS2019 it looks like those are whole new rewrites and P3D's response it that it "should" be compatible.

My opinion is unless P3D comes out with V5 code that integrates the latest, we got what we got.

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On 6/24/2019 at 12:29 PM, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

While I just finished my new (realize not the latest and greatest) i7700k Delid @ 5Ghz with a top end GTX1070ti over the weekend (haven't loaded P3D yet) - my old i2700k @ 4.7Ghz with a top end GTX970 still runs P3D pretty handily at well above 30FPS in all but the most dense scenery situations. My sliders are set more to the high side. It sounds like you have a problem. CPU clock speed is still your biggest bang for the buck - if it's not OC'd - it should be. High AI Traffic volumes would be high on my "suspect" list as well...

Regards,

Scott

Seconded. I run i8700K Delid with all cores permanently overclocked to 5Ghz, including when running AVX instructions, alongside a GTX980Ti. All drives SSD.

Most of my settings are on the higher side.

I run SF3D, EF, ASP4, EnvDir. For me, P3D4.5HF1 is definitely smoother than previous versions.

Sim runs beautifully smoothly at 30fps and only drops lower at dawn dusk due to cloud shadow casting. At those times I disable clouds casting shadows for a while and its back to 30 fps.

Sounds like something is wrong with your hardware setup/tuning

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, AnkH said:

I disagree, all they can show you are screenshots and they are utterly easy to fake. As far as I remember, almost all CPU performance leaks over the last 10y (at least) have been proven wrong in most cases, especially if they were "leaked" that much in advance. Or, they were spot on but only in such a nitpicked scenario that it has no or only very little significance on the daily scenarios most of us work with (e.g. the performance in the simulator).

Or could you link to the leak you are talking about? If it is about the Ice Lake notebook CPU with the name Core i7-1065G7, then above applie. In PassMark, the current leader is a 9900 in the single core benchmark, a 3700X reaches 2942 points (12% more than i7-1065G7). In the multicore benchmark, the leader is the 3900X with a whopping 32220 points (315% more than i7-1065G7(!!!)). Then, the 3900X with 16 cores is about three times faster in PassMark than the four core i7-1065G7 and yet you conclude that Intel is going back to 4 cores HT?

Seriously, where do you take your "info" from? It does not fit at all...

No it was from some Chinese overclocker if I recall correctly. Obviously Intel and other major tech sites will market performance gains in such a way that helps themselves sell more.

I can’t be bothered finding the site again, it may have been taken down already anyway. GIYBF.

Also I’m talking about major consumer market level chips like the K series not the X or server equivalent chips and multi core performance so I’m not sure why you’re comparing apples to pears.  

The leak specifically compared IPC gains to the 9900 so that’s what I’m interested in. 

There were no 6 core average consumer chips announced or revealed by Intel hence why the industry believes there might not be any released

Not sure where you got your “leaks” from but those I’ve been following seem to be pretty much spot on about real world performance. Unless of course you listen to Intel or their reviewers on what they have to say about their own products. 

Tbh even if it was only a 15% IPC improvement with higher overclock headroom I’d still go for it and it will make a difference in P3D. Not that P3D is all I do anyway.

Either way I can’t be bothered debating about this, I’ll just wait for the actual benchmarks to be released and make my own decision from there on. 

You do as you please. 

Edited by TheBoom

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6 hours ago, TheBoom said:

Either way I can’t be bothered debating about this, I’ll just wait for the actual benchmarks to be released and make my own decision from there on. 

Obvioiusly you are bothered, as you come here and make people "nervous" with information out of leaks that were usually proven wrong over the last decade: some pages still have the leak online you are probably talking about, example: https://wccftech.com/intel-10nm-ice-lake-sunny-cove-14nm-comet-lake-amd-ryzen-3000-cpu-z-benchmark-leak/

But also on the list of the "chinese forum member", not a single indication about coming Intel CPUs being again only 4 cores HT chips. The ones on the list are 6 core 12 threads or 8 core 16 threads samples and yes, if they are really running on the indicated 3.7GHz, the IPC gain would be enourmous. But come on, this is 100% a mistake, as the current 9900K is also officially rated as a 3.6GHz CPU with Turbo.

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On 7/9/2019 at 2:05 AM, SledDriver said:

Seconded. I run i8700K Delid with all cores permanently overclocked to 5Ghz, including when running AVX instructions, alongside a GTX980Ti. All drives SSD.

Most of my settings are on the higher side.

I run SF3D, EF, ASP4, EnvDir. For me, P3D4.5HF1 is definitely smoother than previous versions.

Sim runs beautifully smoothly at 30fps and only drops lower at dawn dusk due to cloud shadow casting. At those times I disable clouds casting shadows for a while and its back to 30 fps.

Sounds like something is wrong with your hardware setup/tuning

Could you 'spawn' F22 at an Aerosoft or ImagineSim Airport, note the incredible high framerate, the buttery smoothness.. Pan around.. Do you get fps drop to 10fps, the GPU spike to 100%? Does your emotion change?

I have same CPU as you + 1080ti, 32GB RAM, 510GB nvme, the works. I notice this stuttering behavior at the 3rd party addon airport of Aersoft EIDW or Pacsim RKSI or ImagineSim WSSS, otherwise its very smooth at defalut airports. Even reducing all scenery setting to low (Dynamic lighting and reflections also off) and it still happens. ORBX or no ORBX. Active Sky or no Active sky, etc... I have done this on Win10 1809 and 1903, with different Nvidia drivers. Vsync on/off, frames locked / unlocked.

This doesn't happen with UK2000 airports, I have found. So it may be due to these newer add-on airports trying to do PBR the 'wrong' or 'unoptimized' way using or LM are still to perfect this newer tech introduced to the product.

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First here are my PC specs:

Quote

 

Custom Loop Watercooling (360 Rad + 480 Rad)

8700k @ 5.1 Ghz - AVX 0

2080Ti (2115/8000)

1TB NVME (P3d Drive) + 512GB NVME (Boot)

Acer Predator Gsync 1440p/165Hz monitor

 

 

Sim + Add-ons: 

Quote

 

P3Dv4.5 HF1 

ASP3Dv4

REX SkyForce 3d

Ultimate Traffic LIve w/ FLAi Aircraft

All ORBX Global and NA Region packages 

All Dzewiecki Designs NA packages 

Several FSDT, FlyTamp and Flight Beam Airports (KJFK KBOS KSFO KDEN KMSP... ect)

 

 

My recommendations: 

Keep the high impact settings to a dull roar. 

- Level of Detail Radius - Keep it at Ultra 

- Autogen Draw Distance - Try running this setting one notch lower in big cities for large jets (FSL) - Very High for (GA) and High (Jets/Large Cities)

- Autogen Building Density - run lower to prevent stutter with large areas of auto gen - Try Dense to start

- Water Detail - High for (GA) - Medium (Jets/IFR)

- Shadows - This was the largest impact for me and the fastest way to eat up GPU utilization, which tanks my frame rate. Start with these ... Casting (Internal/External/SimObjects) Top left 3 ... Receive (Internal/External) Top right 2

- PBR - Ultra for (GA) High for (Jets/Large Airports with PBR)

 

Personal Thoughts;

After hours of tuning, tweaking and testing, I agree with most in this thread, P3D is just an old dog with a fancy new dress. You can only update the old core FSX engine so much before you hit a wall. Everyone's "acceptable" level of performance is different and what's "great" for one may be awful for the next. I need 100% fluidity as to not break the immersion and even at 30 FPS it's tough. 

You'll never achieve a perfect experience with P3D when flying heavy jets (PMDG/FSL) and everyone glorious add-on around (ORBX, FSDT, FlyTamp, DD). It's just not possible.

Good Luck moving forward, hopefully some of my settings helped you. 

Cheers! 

 

Edited by Spin_Cykle
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11 hours ago, Spin_Cykle said:

First here are my PC specs:

 

Sim + Add-ons: 

 

My recommendations: 

Keep the high impact settings to a dull roar. 

- Level of Detail Radius - Keep it at Ultra 

- Autogen Draw Distance - Try running this setting one notch lower in big cities for large jets (FSL) - Very High for (GA) and High (Jets/Large Cities)

- Autogen Building Density - run lower to prevent stutter with large areas of auto gen - Try Dense to start

- Water Detail - High for (GA) - Medium (Jets/IFR)

- Shadows - This was the largest impact for me and the fastest way to eat up GPU utilization, which tanks my frame rate. Start with these ... Casting (Internal/External/SimObjects) Top left 3 ... Receive (Internal/External) Top right 2

- PBR - Ultra for (GA) High for (Jets/Large Airports with PBR)

 

Personal Thoughts;

After hours of tuning, tweaking and testing, I agree with most in this thread, P3D is just an old dog with a fancy new dress. You can only update the old core FSX engine so much before you hit a wall. Everyone's "acceptable" level of performance is different and what's "great" for one may be awful for the next. I need 100% fluidity as to not break the immersion and even at 30 FPS it's tough. 

You'll never achieve a perfect experience with P3D when flying heavy jets (PMDG/FSL) and everyone glorious add-on around (ORBX, FSDT, FlyTamp, DD). It's just not possible.

Good Luck moving forward, hopefully some of my settings helped you. 

Cheers! 

 

correct 

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Another tip.

Disable hyperthreading in the BIOS and overclock that chip to 5.0ghz. I got mine stable at 1.23v w/out AVX. I've played P3D for the longest time with hyperthreading enabled and it just doesn't quite compare with it off. No matter what other people say. Don't even consider the affinity mask trick, it's going to be a waste of time and headache 'tweaking' the sim.

I'm running the same setup, sans the GPU, I'm only using RTX 2070. I would say my settings are medium, and getting consistently 40~60fps anywhere. 30fps under heavy weather and REX EF+SF. I could get consistent 50fps while in UK2000 EGLL scenery with heavy VATSIM traffic (FLAi) using the Aerosoft A320.

Edited by jmrtlara
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On 7/8/2019 at 12:05 PM, FPStewy said:

I'm no expert but there will come a time where we have to address the limits of the sim, from everything I've read in the P3D forums they are still using the core Visual Studio 2015 but devs are "cheating" or focusing more rand more on the latest redistributables, technically it should be better but think of it like connecting your garden hose to fire hydrant and wondering why you don't get the same results as a fire hose. From following VS2017 and VS2019 it looks like those are whole new rewrites and P3D's response it that it "should" be compatible.

My opinion is unless P3D comes out with V5 code that integrates the latest, we got what we got.

I noticed different addons install several different versions of VS redistributables, it's a real mess and I wonder how they don't interfere one another, but even more interestingly I'm able to uninstall most of them and things will still work as they should.

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Best thing I've noticed is delete and rebuild your config and shader.

Let P3D rebuild and tweak until your happy.

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In case it helps anybody:

One of our commercial customers had a massive FPS drop after updating P3d that was partly tracked down to P3d reassigning a projector as the sound adapter!

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Hmm, does not really surprise me. After the Windows 10 1903 update basically corrupted my sound settings (I use a Soundblaster Z...), I realized that it also reverted the soundsetting back to "default playback device" in Prepar3d which resulted in several sound loop CTDs until I reinstalled the sound card driver again and selected the proper playback device in P3D.

Same story in other games, such as BFV. Took me a while to get it sorted...

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I use my trusted AT&T UNIX PC Model 7300 serving my P3Dv4.5 HF and I always get 60 fps with all sliders to the right. Even when I fly my FSL A319 at Flight-Beam KDEN (I run my sim in monochrome mode). 

Edited by Wennerholm

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7 minutes ago, Wennerholm said:

I use my trusted AT&T UNIX PC Model 7300 serving my P3Dv4.5 HF and I always get 60 fps with all sliders to the right. Even when I fly my FSL A319 at Flight-Beam KDEN.

Oh sure.

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