Why snipers?

[barryward12345 0]

Hi all AvsimmersAs a reasonably long time member of Avsim, I realise that maybe this is not the correct place to ask my question -- but I do so because I find most Avsimmers to be of a temperate disposition and I am not keen to ask it elsewhere.Watching the unfolding tragic events in New Orleans, I have become aware of something, which as an Australian, I find to be quite incomprehensible. I realise that civilisation is really only a thin veneer and mankind can be savage, I understand that poverty and drug addiction exist, I appreciate that people can be simply bad or crazy. But, can any of my American friends give me any kind of thoughts as to why snipers would be taking potshots in the midst of this turmoil? Mostly , I have found that when a disaster occurs, the best part of people comes forward -- I guess that a small number may take advantage of a bad situation and hence I can kind of understand why some may murder, rape, pillage --- but why snipe?? What advatage does that give the sniper? Is it just sickness? Sorry for this -- Regards Barry

[btacon 1,795]

Either mad from the heat, mad from pure hatred, or mad from being forgotten about for 4 days.I would have airdropped water and instructions for next steps into the inner city Tuesday morning. They would have known that America cared by Tuesday evening.btMr. Monday Morning Quarterback

[Dillon 2,197]

Look no further than what you see portrayed in Hip-Hop and the glorification of Gang violence... Being an outlaw for the sake of being an outlaw is more attractive to the youth of America than education. Now this can go for

[Gavin 99]

>Look no further than what you see portrayed in Hip-Hop and>the glorification of Gang violence... Being an outlaw for the>sake of being an outlaw is more attractive to the youth of>America than education. Now this can go for

[BobK 0]

Simple - when there is no law and order (no one able to enforce law and keep the peace) some people will behave the way they've always wanted to. In areas where there is little police presence, you have shootings and murders every day. Now you have a whole city in that situation. I'm afraid that could happen in just about any large US city under those circumstances. A major contributer to this are the points that Dillon brought up. It's why so many of the good guys carry a gun wherever they go.

[oldbear 33]

Could it not be argued that the fact that US society is awash with legally available firearms is actually a major cause of the problem?Ian

[Guest oyvindhansen]

The mayor of New Orleans blames a lot of the violence drug addicts that are crazed after many days without a fix. Don't know about the snipers, but maybe he has a point.-

[BobK 0]

>Could it not be argued that the fact that US society is awash>with legally available firearms is actually a major cause of>the problem?>>IanWhat do "legally available" firearms have to do with rape, looting, burning and destruction of property? The "sniping" could have been done with a hunting rifle, which are legal in just about any country.I read recently that there was a suggestion in the UK, that due to the fact the pointed end kitchen knives have been used in a number of recent stabbings, and that they are readily available in just about any kitchen, that they should be outlawed in favor of blunt ended knives. In Japan, some nut case killed a bunch of kids in a school, with a Samurai sword. In other parts of the world you see this king of wanton violence meted out with machetes, etc. Where there's a will, there's way.You can't blame the instrument for the behavior of the person wielding it. Yeah, there are too many repeat offenders with guns, but the major cause of that is a pitiful justice system that keeps letting them back out on the streets instead of putting them away for life, where they belong. Bob Klemm

[RFields5421 1]

That area of Louisiana near New Orleans is a hunters paradise - ducks, birds, small game. Many, many people hunt and have guns in their homes. For those who live on the outlying areas - a pistol or a shotgun for the occasional posionous snakes or alligator is very useful.What the television did not show, because even reporters are not completely brainless, was much of the early looting was of gun stores and the hunting departments of larger stores.A lot of the people knew that the city would become completely lawless - didn't take a genius to figure that one out - and went after "protection".However, many of the weapons shown / described are illegal at all times in the US. The automatic weapons are imported from Europe to the countries which produce cocaine and other drugs. The guns are then smuggled into the US.The gangs described above obtain these guns and have armories better than the police. This is happening world wide.At this point even the worst thugs are despirate.The people who get on the bus for evacuation are those strong enough to push themselves, their children, their 65 year old mother - to the front of the line.If a gun makes a 15-30 hour difference in getting water for a crying baby - they use it - anyone would.Some of the early shooting at rescuers was probably rationalized along the line "They've passed by us a dozen times, my babies are dying. If I shoot at the helicopter, the Army is going to come and get me - but at least they will take me and my family out of this ####."

[Guest oyvindhansen]

>What do "legally available" firearms have to do with rape,>looting, burning and destruction of property? >In the words of Philip Marlowe: "Such a lot of guns around town and so few brains. You're the second guy I've met within hours who seems to think a gat in the hand means a world by the tail."-

[oldbear 33]

Well you've sort of made my point.."Many, many people hunt and have guns in their homes.""Much of the early looting was of gun stores and the hunting departments of larger stores."We don't have gun stores in our towns and - apart from farmers with a shotgun licence - we're not allowed to keep guns in our homes. Yes, we have armed criminals of course, but the number of guns in circulation is miniscule by comparison to the US - simply because we can't legally own them. So if the same disaster was to occur in a British city they'd be far fewer desperate or criminally motivated people wandering around with a gun - of whatever type - in their hand.That was the point I was trying to get across.Ian

[BobK 0]

>So if the same disaster was to occur in a British city they'd>be far fewer desperate or criminally motivated people>wandering around with a gun - of whatever type - in their>hand.I hope you never have to prove that, Ian. When there is no law enforcement presence, anarchy will rear its head. It doesn't matter what you use for weapons. My area 'experienced' hurricane Andrew. Picture Katrina without the water. After Andrew, there was no law enforcement or National Guard presence for some time. The police were in the same boat with everyone else who lives in the area - trying to secure their homes and families. There was some early looting of damaged/destroyed stores and homes, but that didn't last too long. The home and business owners protected themselves, their families, and what was left of their businesses and homes, with guns. After a few run-ins with looters, (in which the looters lost) the looting stopped. At night, people in my neighborhood took turns standing guard out on the streets. That gave the rest of the folks some peace of mind while living in homes that couldn't be secured. We had no issues with security on my block.If criminals who use guns in the commision of a crime were dealt with the way they SHOULD be, we wouldn't have these problems. There will always be debate, and both sides have their issues, but it's just too easy to blame the weapon instead of the person using it.And remember Ian, the right to keep and bear arms was born during the American revolution, so it's Britain's fault that so many Americans have them today! ;)Bob Klemm

[oldbear 33]

"If criminals who use guns in the commision of a crime were dealt with the way they SHOULD be, we wouldn't have these problems."Oh I'd agree with you there Bob. I'm just glad that here in the UK most of our criminals - and indeed most of our police - don't carry guns. I fear for the future though.. If I had to defend my property, I'd have to dig out my cricket bat from the shed!All the bestIan:)

[BobK 0]

>If I had to defend my property, I'd have to dig out my cricket>bat from the shed!But, you see - if that happens too many times, you'll have calls for bat control! :) However, you have one choice for what your bat is made of. We have to decide between aluminum (aluminium?) and wood. :-lolBTW - I carry a gun every day on the job, where I'm also a pistol instructor, so my views may be a little 'jaded'. All of the armed people that I know personally are the good guys. But it is a little scary to know what's out there, and who may be carrying it. Bob

[barryward12345 0]

Thank you to all who have replied to my post. In 1923, Australia had its first and only Police "strike" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_Victorian_Police_strikeVigilante groups were eventually formed and the resultant lawlessness was stopped.So opportunism is nothing new - not restricted to any time or place. Possibly in this particular time and place, it has been accentuated by the modern availability of weapons and drugs and also by the clear difference between "haves and have-nots" (note that I didn't say poverty) I do believe that there is a sickness in our western civilisation. I have no idea what the answer to it is - probably nothing that can be thought up my man. We are after all imperfect - really we are just intelligent animals, but animals nevertheless. Our problem is that we don't understand this and think that we can control everything, including nature and our own selves. The next thousand years of human history will be very interesting - just a pity that none of us will know what it will be. Barry