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July 11th development update

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5 hours ago, MartinHannon said:

Looks great, makes me wonder if it's game footage or a cutscene.

LOL probably neither! I think the screenshot is fantastic but to me it looks like in game capture which has had some post proccessing done to it, I.e. depth of field.

I think it's a fair reflection of the quality of the default panels though, I mean why wouldn't it be if Microsoft are publishing this to the community.

Edited by dtrjones

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11 hours ago, Greazer said:

Also, the Microsoft one would have been heavily processed with Photoshop filters. They will do anything to make it look "real".

MS and anyone else do the same thing so the "heavily processed with Photoshop filters." is nothing new ...

 

 


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8 hours ago, dtrjones said:

LOL probably neither! I think the screenshot is fantastic but to me it looks like in game capture which has had some post proccessing done to it, I.e. depth of field.

I think it's a fair reflection of the quality of the default panels though, I mean why wouldn't it be if Microsoft are publishing this to the community.

I'm fairly certain the DOF effect is post-processing and like some others have said, I'm not sure why you would need an effect like that in the sim other than for screenshots.

Even if the trailer and the screenshot are enhanced visually, I think this editing would be confined to a minimum and I think what we have seen so far is pretty representative of what it actually looks like in-sim. With the visual quality they have shown us they are setting the bar up pretty high and if it didn't look as good as what we are seeing here the sim will fail.

Obviously, companies selling products will go far to advertise and sell and therefore make their product look better than it actually might be but there is a limit. If you go too far and the end product looks substantially worse than what you've previewed, the product will fail for the most part because you haven't met the standards you set forth yourself. I highly doubt MS are going that way, regardless of how "betrayed" others feel because of Flight.

 

Edited by threegreen

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The depth of field could be done in game with some "photographic camera" feature designed for screenshot taking.  Both Euro and American Truck Sims have built in camera features which allow all kinds of effects like DOF similar to what that MS pic shows.  So does Elite Dangerous.

Having built in features to allow the players to easily advertise your game for you is good design in today's social media market.

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1 hour ago, threegreen said:

I'm fairly certain the DOF effect is post-processing and like some others have said, I'm not sure why you would need an effect like that in the sim other than for screenshots.

Even if the trailer and the screenshot are enhanced visually, I think this editing would be confined to a minimum and I think what we have seen so far is pretty representative of what it actually looks like in-sim.

Not quite. This is simply a good example of Postprocessing in the image. Otherwise the DOF can't work correctly since the computer can't know which part of the cockpit is interesting for the viewer.  At the same time they will activate a whole array of post processing since you don't have the strict time limits as in the sim itself. It's a different rendering workflow. A difference to X-Plane where the screen shots are at the same time a feature for debugging and bug reports.

It is simply a different purpose. This is a feature for social media to simply show a nice image while for X-Plane the rendering workflow must be the same otherwise a different post processing might hide a bug.


Karsten Schubert

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5 hours ago, Longranger said:

Not quite. This is simply a good example of Postprocessing in the image. Otherwise the DOF can't work correctly since the computer can't know which part of the cockpit is interesting for the viewer.  At the same time they will activate a whole array of post processing since you don't have the strict time limits as in the sim itself. It's a different rendering workflow. A difference to X-Plane where the screen shots are at the same time a feature for debugging and bug reports.

It is simply a different purpose. This is a feature for social media to simply show a nice image while for X-Plane the rendering workflow must be the same otherwise a different post processing might hide a bug.

Not sure if I get your point completely but I was saying the DOF effect is probably post-processing and the image (DOF excluded) should be representative of the in-sim visuals (lighting, textures...).


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24 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Not sure if I get your point completely but I was saying the DOF effect is probably post-processing and the image (DOF excluded) should be representative of the in-sim visuals (lighting, textures...).

Not necessarily. If you have time (1 or 2 seconds instead of 0.5 tenth of a second you can turn on a better rendering path. Since we are clearly in a different rendering path it is really hard to tell which options are used in the real game.Compared to the Image in flight, time does not matter and in many cases you simply dial up several of the rendering settings.Which ones, how much.


Karsten Schubert

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21 hours ago, simbol said:

I am just trying to say that we don't know the source of resolution for both pics, you can't compare and HD picture vs an 8K picture for example.. the difference would be massive.

I have a feeling MS2020 is using 8K as otherwise the anti aliasing required to achieve such great detail would be too taxing on the system. Again this is just a theory, it would have been nice if they told us in the post of the information 😏

S.

I definitely get what you're trying to say Simbol - and absolutely, yes, you're right on the way that people will perceive their sims on their monitors in a certain resolution.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is a Screen Shot is basically a Snapshot of their sim - and however good it looks to them - we can dissect it by a side by side comparison.

I know it's complicated and I do respect you. Guess we'll just have to do that "Wait and see" thing. 

 

And for everyone else obsessing about the DOF thing - forget it - that's pure Post-Processing - and why wouldn't you?

Look at the knobs and ASI, HSI, it's all good. The DOF is a cheap trick to draw the eye - and I totally doubt it'll be included in the FS2020 - unless part of some new Camera Screen Shot Thing (You know CTRL + V) All that gash?

But for us serious Simmers - I ain't got time to take selfies when I'm lifting the 777F off the dirt at Heathrow. I don't give a monkey's Uncle how I look - I'm too busy in the pointy-end trying to convince 380 tons of metal to take a running jump at the ground and miss.

Edited by Guest

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7 minutes ago, ganter said:

Look at the knobs and ASI, HSI, it's all good. The DOF is a cheap trick to draw the eye - and I totally doubt it'll be included in the FS2020 - unless part of some new Camera Screen Shot Thing (You know CTRL + V)

Exactly that is the point. This is probably a Screenshot Feature that is more or less part part of their Default Shader package. Everyone can do something with such a feature. But the problem with it. If you use such a rather time consuming feature you are no longer bound by realtime restrictions and you can turn other features on that you could never use in the realtime rendering, so we can only guess which features were also manipulated for this image.

So it has a rather limited value by itself. Its real value is simply. The discussions about MFS died down and they simply wanted to ignite these discussions again, without any real new details.


Karsten Schubert

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8 minutes ago, Longranger said:

Exactly that is the point. This is probably a Screenshot Feature that is more or less part part of their Default Shader package. Everyone can do something with such a feature. But the problem with it. If you use such a rather time consuming feature you are no longer bound by realtime restrictions and you can turn other features on that you could never use in the realtime rendering, so we can only guess which features were also manipulated for this image.

So it has a rather limited value by itself. Its real value is simply. The discussions about MFS died down and they simply wanted to ignite these discussions again, without any real new details.

I'd buy that were it not for the fact that discussions here - and far away on all the other forums have been at what can only be described as Fever Pitch since the infamous Trailer was released.

What's your point?

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1 hour ago, ganter said:

I'd buy that were it not for the fact that discussions here - and far away on all the other forums have been at what can only be described as Fever Pitch since the infamous Trailer was released.

What's your point?

This discussion was on its way to die down. The real reason for this early trailer was simply: Shock the market. with a video for a program that shall be released sometime next year. One of its main purposes: Try to limit the possible competitors and produce a hype as big as possible.

This is a good job BY THE MARKETING DEPARTMENT. This is their job. When the hype dies down they have to do something against it. And this image is such an action. The real developers simply have their own lists of priorities and problems but it is not their job to read and react to fans. This is the job of the marketing department that have only a limited influence and knowledge about the development while the developers are often enough limited by NDAs.

In reality reactions of the community have a rather limited value. They can only gather some reactions, give the list to the developers and what happens after that this is not their job. They don't have deeper insight in the budget, timetable, internal priorities and problems. We might get some additional informations in August but don't expect that there is a tight contact between the teams.In most cases the marketing guys are responsible for different projects..

Any interactions between the teams are normally extremly regulated. A developer has nothing to do with the marketing. It's not his job or responsibility to react to fans because his administration is responsible for budget,costs and timetable and these are the biggest problems that you have in development.But these details are normally not the responsibilities of a developer.

He has a list of bugs to fix or features to implement but when and why changes are made but not any responsibilities about other parts of his project.

Edited by Longranger

Karsten Schubert

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3 hours ago, Longranger said:

This discussion was on its way to die down. The real reason for this early trailer was simply: Shock the market. with a video for a program that shall be released sometime next year. One of its main purposes: Try to limit the possible competitors and produce a hype as big as possible.

I have certainly been very surprised by the overall number of posts that a short 100+ seconds trailer has spawned, especially since it seems the large majority of the posts have been by the same relatively small group of hopeful flight sim enthusiasts. Reading the posts has been somewhat entertaining, and I have also learned some things along the way.

So now the question is, how many posts (including this one   😉 ) will one cleverly presented screen shot spawn?

Al

Edited by ark

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8 hours ago, ark said:

I have certainly been very surprised by the overall number of posts that a short 100+ seconds trailer has spawned, especially since it seems the large majority of the posts have been by the same relatively small group of hopeful flight sim enthusiasts. Reading the posts has been somewhat entertaining, and I have also learned some things along the way.

So now the question is, how many posts (including this one   😉 ) will one cleverly presented screen shot spawn?

It's not only the trailer and the screenshot looking good which is causing the hype. It's that visual quality we've been shown plus the fact itself that MS have unexpectedly launched a whole new sim which, from the looks of it, appears to continue that iconic franchise of MS sims that contributed so much to get flight simming to where it is today. While P3D and XP are really good at what they offer at this point, they do leave a lot to be desired and the fact that we seem to be getting a new, modern sim naturally makes this community run in circles, screaming. Which in turn shows what the prospect of a new sim means.

Edited by threegreen
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My United Airlines EvoBlue liveries for PMDG's NGXu (avsim) | (onedrive)
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23 hours ago, threegreen said:

Not sure if I get your point completely but I was saying the DOF effect is probably post-processing and the image (DOF excluded) should be representative of the in-sim visuals (lighting, textures...).

There were probably at least 10 filters applied to the original image: color, contrast, sharpening, HDR, DOF, etc etc. It did not come straight from FS. For one thing there is obviously no DOF in the 3d rendering. These are the tricks.

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18 minutes ago, Greazer said:

There were probably at least 10 filters applied to the original image: color, contrast, sharpening, HDR, DOF, etc etc. It did not come straight from FS. For one thing there is obviously no DOF in the 3d rendering. These are the tricks.

It looks processed, sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean throwing the raw screen shot into Photoshop. This could be a shot within the flight sim, if filter options are included for making pretty screen shots.

I think the first time I saw something like that was in one of the Silent Hunter sub games, with a setting for "painterly" colors and simulated film grain. People are used to this kind of thing now in AAA games, Instagram, etc.

It's not an effect I care for, and I'm also not a fan of some of the extreme color saturation you can do with the config file "art" settings in XP11. But some folks like it, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's included in the new MFS sim. 

Edited by Paraffin

X-Plane and Microsoft Flight Simulator on Windows 10 
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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