fs1

AIs now following Sloped Runways in P3D

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Posted (edited)

Just started a flight from FSimStudios Cancun gate 53 with the QW787..

Upon pushback with GSX I got continuous 'to flow flaps' messages.

After pushback the aircraft bounced  heavily until reaching the taxiway adjecent to RWY12R.

Did not have this behaviour without this tool?

Edited by edemeijer

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5 minutes ago, edemeijer said:

Just started a flight from FSimStudios Cancun gate 53 with the QW787..

Upon pushback with GSX I got continuous 'to flow flaps' messages.

After pushback the aircraft bounced  heavily until reaching the taxiway adjecent to RWY12R.

Did not have this behaviour without this tool?

Try disabling the addon and see if it still happens.

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20 minutes ago, edemeijer said:

Just started a flight from FSimStudios Cancun gate 53 with the QW787..

Upon pushback with GSX I got continuous 'to flow flaps' messages.

After pushback the aircraft bounced  heavily until reaching the taxiway adjecent to RWY12R.

Did not have this behaviour without this tool?

Just tried it with the QW788, gate 53 and nose facing right/tail left and can not reproduce it. Maybe it was a little hiccup of the QW?

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, edemeijer said:

Just started a flight from FSimStudios Cancun gate 53 with the QW787..

Upon pushback with GSX I got continuous 'to flow flaps' messages.

After pushback the aircraft bounced  heavily until reaching the taxiway adjecent to RWY12R.

Did not have this behaviour without this tool?

I will check. Are you with the user aircraft? If so should be fixed. Did you change the user aircraft after loading P3D? Try not changing it (save a flight so the QW787 is the first user aircraft in that flight)

Edited by fs1

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Hi, this is interesting and revolutionary, I will love to try this. I am away from my main computer so I can't test, but downloaded to see if there is some sort of manual or anything that explains how this works.

Also if this file can be distributed by payware developers with their sloped runway addons? if not can some sort of commercial agreement be made? if possible PM so we can talk privately.

thank you for your attention. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, LVFRicardo said:

Hi, this is interesting and revolutionary, I will love to try this. I am away from my main computer so I can't test, but downloaded to see if there is some sort of manual or anything that explains how this works.

Also if this file can be distributed by payware developers with their sloped runway addons? if not can some sort of commercial agreement be made? if possible PM so we can talk privately.

thank you for your attention. 

 

 

I will PM you. Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for your development of the dll and obviously all the hard work that went into it.  :smile:

I don't have the ORBX sceneries for the sloped runways. I tried to install the St. Barth.. I have P3dv4.5 and i have a separate scenery file so not in p3dv4.5.  I added the terrain cfg at end and numbered in highest number. Which folder should I use for the scenery/texture.. The auto cfg did nothing. I also can use Add on Organizer by Lorby-si.  Should I use the default xml or the one that Lorby-si writes?   My scenery looks nothing like in the pictures.

 

Thanks,

Bob M.

Edited by unc1rlm
found download and need help with scenery

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Does this interfere with other addons that control AI behavior?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, WarpD said:

Does this interfere with other addons that control AI behavior?

No, it should not as it just not interfere with its path/behavior.

Edited by fs1
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Thank you very much Federico! An amazing contribution!

I understand it is still on beta, but is there any way to disable the disclaimer pop-up when launching P3D?

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52 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Thank you very much Federico! An amazing contribution!

I understand it is still on beta, but is there any way to disable the disclaimer pop-up when launching P3D?

Well, we will include some more features and be launching it. Soon

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, fs1 said:

Well airport design should be adapted now.

This should be the key take-away here.

A rainy Saturday gave me the opportunity yesterday to test this wonderful DLL a bit more. It works perfectly with custom made terrain (i.e., 3-D modeled terrain) or 3-D object (e.g., taxibridges). The more gentle the slope is modeled, the softer are the movements of the AI aircraft. However, the currently available airports that have a sloped runway are not designed in a way to accommodate AI traffic and the majority do not use 3-D models for the terrain. For example, they do lack runway paths or taxiways in the AFCAD file. Adding those missings items, which are necessary to support AI traffic, will result in terrain anomalies. 

So it would be very interesting if anybody with experience in scenery design could chime in here. To my understanding, the lowest buildings/ground poly elements can be simply placed on the ground, while higher airport structures need to be modeled on a 3-D model. The latter then do require platforms (i.e., invisible, hard surface) to make them solid for any vehicle that drives over it. However, as far as I know, platforms do come with a certain performance toll.

I think some pictures do explain it better than my blather:

A) ORBX PAKT Ketchikan is using a custom 3-D model and works nicely now with UI and AI
Tsz7IG7.jpg

B) ORBX KSUN Sun Valley has a sloped runway but does not have a 3-D model for the terrain and use some other design technique 
ZtmrQA3.jpg

C) Moreover, the AFCAD file of KSUN is lacking most of the infrastructure
4ZmBPlm.jpg

D) Adding the infrastructure with Airport Design Editor to make the airport AI-ready results in a total loss of the ground features
5LiQ5Pz.jpg

E) The KSUN terrain anomaly results from a revised airport altitude, which is done in Airport Design Editor. The lowest point of the field needs to correspond with the airport altitude. The airport altitude is used by the AI engine to determine the position of the AI aircraft above the ground. AI will otherwise hover in the air (or better to say at an airport altitude that is set higher than the lowest altitude of the field)
uWRi1WK.jpg

But again, this is just my experience from AFCAD editing and I have little knowledge about scenery design. But maybe this helps the scenery experts here a bit to test the DLL with their designs. As Federico already said, scenery design needs to adapt now to this new possibility for AI.

Edited by Wolkenschreck
added E)
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Thanks @Wolkenschreck

I will be adding the landing reference altitude change to reflect proper flares in next build.

Thanks 

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No worries. 
And just to make it clear: What I illustrated here is related to the way the scenery is designed and has nothing to do with the AI enhancement of Federico. The AI feature introduced by Federico works nicely and it is scenery design that needs to adapt. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/13/2019 at 3:41 PM, fs1 said:

I will check. Are you with the user aircraft? If so should be fixed. Did you change the user aircraft after loading P3D? Try not changing it (save a flight so the QW787 is the first user aircraft in that flight)

Hi, I have some additional information for you. Same behaviour also occurs at other airports (in this case Flightbeam SEQM, gate 14, GSX pushback tail right nose left)..

I start my P3D, always with the default vehicle. I load the airport, select my aircraft and create a flight plan.

I have tested the following scenarios:

- AI enabled, AI module enabled -> pushback issue
- AI enabled, AI module removed -> OK
- AI disabled, AI module enabled -> OK
- AI disabled, AI module removed ->OK

I am using P3D v4.5 hf1, ActiveSky, QW787 v1.3.

Edited by edemeijer

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5 hours ago, Wolkenschreck said:

This should be the key take-away here.

A rainy Saturday gave me the opportunity yesterday to test this wonderful DLL a bit more. It works perfectly with custom made terrain (i.e., 3-D modeled terrain) or 3-D object (e.g., taxibridges). The more gentle the slope is modeled, the softer are the movements of the AI aircraft. However, the currently available airports that have a sloped runway are not designed in a way to accommodate AI traffic and the majority do not use 3-D models for the terrain. For example, they do lack runway paths or taxiways in the AFCAD file. Adding those missings items, which are necessary to support AI traffic, will result in terrain anomalies. 

[...]


But again, this is just my experience from AFCAD editing and I have little knowledge about scenery design. But maybe this helps the scenery experts here a bit to test the DLL with their designs. As Federico already said, scenery design needs to adapt now to this new possibility for AI.

I was thinking along the same lines Christoph, but it's great to see your confirmation. Keep up the good work and let u know any thoughts you have! I might try to give 3D airport modeling a go for my African project as it's relatively simple. My main project would be too complex for me at this point, i'm afraid.

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On 7/12/2019 at 1:35 PM, fs1 said:

I tested it on the freeware St. Barth, here.

I have not tested this yet, but I'm going to assume that it will work with FlyTampa's St. Bart.

I've seen AIG AI (DH) Winairs take off from St. Bart, before this free utility. So I knew that it could be done.

Thank you for the contribution to our community.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, edemeijer said:

Hi, I have some additional information for you. Same behaviour also occurs at other airports (in this case Flightbeam SEQM, gate 14, GSX pushback tail right nose left)..

I start my P3D, always with the default vehicle. I load the airport, select my aircraft and create a flight plan.

I have tested the following scenarios:

- AI enabled, AI module enabled -> pushback issue
- AI enabled, AI module removed -> OK
- AI disabled, AI module enabled -> OK
- AI disabled, AI module removed ->OK

I am using P3D v4.5 hf1, ActiveSky, QW787 v1.3.

This issue is with the user aircraft ? So this happens only in the pushback and with the tug enabled?

When does it not happen, when the tug is invisible? Thanks

Edited by fs1

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23 minutes ago, fs1 said:

This issue is with the user aircraft ? So this happens only in the pushback and with the tug enabled?

When does it not happen, when the tug is invisible? Thanks

Yes, it only happens after pushing back... When the tow truck clears the aircraft starts bouncing. If you do the same with standard pushback shift+p everything is OK...

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6 minutes ago, edemeijer said:

Yes, it only happens after pushing back... When the tow truck clears the aircraft starts bouncing. If you do the same with standard pushback shift+p everything is OK...

I will have to check this. So this happens the moment when the tow truck removes itself? 

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8 minutes ago, fs1 said:

I will have to check this. So this happens the moment when the tow truck removes itself? 

Already when starting pushback, but the bouncing is not visible. The aircraft gives an aural warning 'too low flaps' continuously

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3 hours ago, edemeijer said:

Hi, I have some additional information for you. Same behaviour also occurs at other airports (in this case Flightbeam SEQM, gate 14, GSX pushback tail right nose left)..

I start my P3D, always with the default vehicle. I load the airport, select my aircraft and create a flight plan.

I have tested the following scenarios:

- AI enabled, AI module enabled -> pushback issue
- AI enabled, AI module removed -> OK
- AI disabled, AI module enabled -> OK
- AI disabled, AI module removed ->OK

I am using P3D v4.5 hf1, ActiveSky, QW787 v1.3.

I tried exactly the same situation and could again not reproduce it. Started with the IRIS F-22, changed to the QW787 and did a cold and dark startup with GSX pushback at FB's Gate 14

Sim: 4.5 HF1
Add-Ons: AS4, REX EF + SF, GSX L2, QW 788 v1.13, AIG OCI AI traffic. and an unregistered FSUIPC Version 5.15 (from 27th November 2018 as the newer version has some problems with AI)

But a user over at Alpha India is facing the same problem. So maybe there is an add-on you both have in common that inferences with the AI DLL? 

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On 7/13/2019 at 12:54 AM, fs1 said:

Thanks for the offer. I will PM you.

Our idea is to release shortly the next AI-ATC features such as active runways, AP PID custom controllers, and AI FDE/Separation features.

Hello Federico,

I've been trying to force runway 27 at KSAN for both departures and arrivals with AIController and PF3 to no avail. If your new program manages to interface with the SDK and finally break that limitation then it'll be free real estate....

Good job and best regards.

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On 7/12/2019 at 6:18 PM, rjfry said:

LLH Creation do sloped runways in P3Dv4. 

Very nice sceneries indeed!

Kind Regards,

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2 hours ago, Wolkenschreck said:

But a user over at Alpha India is facing the same problem. So maybe there is an add-on you both have in common that inferences with the AI DLL? 

Actually it's the same user. It's just 2 different usernames 🙂

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