From Boeing to Bus?

[pracines 823]

6 hours ago, birdguy said:

Since this is a thread primarily of yoke versus side stick let me ask what does it matter in a simulator what kind of controls the real aircraft has?  Whatever aircraft I fly in my simulator I am flying with a side stick.  The Saitek X52 which I have had for almost a decade has a stick which I place on the right side of my keyboard and a throttle which I place on the left side of my keyboard.

So it doesn't matter whether I am flying an Airbus or a B737 or an F/A 18 or an F-16 or a J-3 Cub or a Quest Kodiak Amphibian or a sailplane or an ultralight.  I use the same stick/throttle for all of them even though they all have different controls.. 

FSX and P3Dv3 or 4 are games.  Hobbies.  Simulators.  Not the real thing.  And the reason we play with these games is to have fun.  Allowing the Boeing problems to creep into the hobby we all enjoy is, to me, ludicrous.

Noel  

 

Noel, 

A perspective for you to consider,

One could ask you; why don't you just use a keyboard to fly your planes? Its just a game for crying out loud! Why spend the money on an X52? What a waste, its just a stupid game!

One could tell you; Just go make paper airplanes, why buy a PC and game to fly? Paper airplanes are the same thing, a.k.a., "not the real thing"!  

But anyway, this thread is not about controls, its about learning Airbus flight operations and the transition from Boeing to Airbus, but since this is all a game to you, this should not interest you in the least.

I do agree with you about the Boeing bashing going on here, I had hoped Avsim would shut that down quick. Maybe some Airbus bashing is what it will take.

🙂

 

[Patco Lch 1,465]

22 hours ago, captain_adf said:

Lately I've been eyeing the FSL A320 which is odd because I've always considered myself a confirmed Boeing guy.  Maybe it's because I finally feel so comfortable flying the NG and Queen and I miss that uncomfortable excitement and near panic when I didn't really know if I could pull off a landing.  Philosophically, I prefer the Boeing approach to flying: the feel of the control surfaces, the cowboy pilot who is in control, not a sidestick and a bunch of cold computers.  Taking some time to admire the FSL Airbus I can see it's fantastically well done. Reviewing the FS2Crew SOP and I'm completely baffled, it's a totally different way to fly.  It seems so foreign and would be easy to just thumb my nose at it and go back to my comfortable Boeings, but that wouldn't be very sporting would it?  Maybe I should learn this other way?

And there's something else that's affecting my sim mindset.  The MAX fiasco is weighing on my mind and my conscience. As bizarre as this may sound, I almost feel embarrassed to be pretend flying a Boeing right now.  Maybe this was once a highly innovative engineering driven company but its behavior lately has revealed it to be yet another shameless global corporate entity whose only concern is stock price and executive parachutes.

To add to the mental conflict, I like to fly with Scandinavian, and they've recently announced that they'll be moving to an all Airbus fleet and retiring their NGs over the next few years.  So in the long run, if I want to keep flying SAS, I'm going to have to learn the Airbus way!

Given that I only have a few weekends left in my summer sim season, I know if i take the plunge now I'll just end the season frustrated because there's no way I'll get to any kind of proficiency in the Airbus in a few weeks time.  But alas it's still there in my mind, challenging me to grow up and give it the old college try.

Any other confirmed Boeing pilots face this dilemma? What are your experiences crossing over to the other side?

Hello Andrew, sounds like you may be a prime canidate to consider the in depth prop liners like the PMDG DC6 or A2As fantastic Captain of the Ship Constellation and some of the other offerings of that genery. Man are they fun as well as challenging. Break away from programming an FMC and instead managing four tempermental Cyclones. I've ruined a few. Learn to crank those beast with realistic start box checked. Lots of hand flying with autopilots that are not set and walk away, at least not for long. Try flying a massive airplane instead of a computer. Sometimes I feel old Earnie's ghost looking over my shoulder and smiling. 

Just a friendly suggestion.

[captain_adf 16]

Wow, thanks everyone for chiming in. I appreciate everyone's opinions and suggestions here.  I certainly don't want to cause any bashing, nor would I ever criticize or discredit anyone's choice of aircraft to fly in the sim (or in the real world!)

I think what I fear most is frustration at feeling like a noob again, since I now feel pretty good with the 737 and 747.  I love flying them!  But at the same time, it was exactly that same frustration that led me to want to conquer these planes back when I first started.  And that led to many years of fun getting to know how to fly a Boeing.  And before I put myself on too high a pedestal, I'm still very very far from being able to claim I've conquered them!

So I think I'll approach the Airbus with that same curiosity and drive.  It's going to take quite a bit of ground school! Thanks for the suggestion to look at the Aerosoft version, I will have to consider that as it's definitely a less intensive price tag and gets plenty of good reviews.  While I'm at it I'll look at some of those fire breathing rotary birds too.  It's all about having fun right? It certainly is in my case since I know I'll never be a real pilot. It sure is fun to pretend, and I'm so lucky to have a hobby that has so much choice.  "I'm for whatever gets you through the night", as ole Frank Sinatra once said.

Thanks again everyone, and I am sorry if I stirred up any trouble, I meant no offense.  Boeing and Airbus both make fine planes and I hope both firms can survive, thrive, and innovate since the aviation world is better with both.  Not the least, they give us sim pilots loads to gripe about, but also a ton of valuable learning.

Edited July 20, 2019 by captain_adf

[birdguy 3,943]

Who said anything about a 'stupid game' Paul?  I said game.  It I not a stupid game, it is a computer game.  If it were stupid I wouldn't be spending my time on it.

I use the Saitek for control inputs because it is easier than using the keyboard for flight controls.  However I do use the keyboard to bring up many of the popups.

I do make paper airplanes.  Some pretty good ones too.  Before my hands started shaking I used to build and airbrush plastic model airplanes.  And before my glaucoma kicked in I flew real airplanes instead of standing on the ground and looking at them fly over.  But then I've always done that too.  Who can hear an airplane fly over and not look up?  

Noel

Edited July 20, 2019 by birdguy

[188AHC 2,138]

Gee Whiz guys.  Can't we have just one topic on Avsim that someone doesn't get their nickers in a twist about?  The OP's question has been answered.

If you wish to regale the members more with your simulator experience with Boeing/Airbus proficiency and which one you think is the best go ahead.  But no more of this schoolyard "mines better than yours" arguments. They are starting to get a bit tedious and are bordering on personal insults. Let's not go there.

And Thank You Busdriver for adding your professional input as to the differences

[pracines 823]

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

Who said anything about a 'stupid game' Paul?  I said game.  It I not a stupid game, it is a computer game.  If it were stupid I wouldn't be spending my time on it.

I use the Saitek for control inputs because it is easier than using the keyboard for flight controls.  However I do use the keyboard to bring up many of the popups.

I do make paper airplanes.  Some pretty good ones too.  Before my hands started shaking I used to build and airbrush plastic model airplanes.  And before my glaucoma kicked in I flew real airplanes instead of standing on the ground and looking at them fly over.  But then I've always done that too.  Who can hear an airplane fly over and not look up?  

Noel

I simply meant to communicate that you calling P3D a game (with more emphasis than necessary) is offensive to some here, you know this to be true. So I gave you an example of one who could take it further and call it a stupid game...their opinion, that you don't like or agree with.

This reason this is important is because MS in the past tried to make MSFS a "game" specifically. The majority of Avsim members did not tolerate that at all. Also, If we see the current version of P3D as a game, what would it take for P3D to become a "simulation"? Many real life schools use P3D/XP or the like, to save on many things, including fuel, time, and also to reinforce concepts. If the FAA suddenly called all these "PC flight games" unacceptable for training, I wonder how that would affect real life.

If we read just the feature lists (let alone the manuals) of PMDG or FSL add-on aircraft, there is no way a gamer will be able to just figure it all out in a month. These are complex simulations of real aircraft. There should be some respect for the work and effort that go/went into them.

My response is not designed to be a "me against you", but more a "please think about others".🙂   

[jon b 2,047]

It’s quite an interesting thread this. I’m battling with this Airbus or Boeing question a lot just at the moment. After flying it for nearly 23 years my beloved real world machine, the magnificent 747 is up for retirement shortly so I’m presented with a choice. Stick with Boeing and go on the  787 with a 200 mile motorway drive before and after a flight at a distant base , or switch to the Airbus A330/A350 and stay where I am with a 30 mile drive through countryside.

I must admit the Airbus does look sort of fresh and appealing certainly from an ergonomics point of view.

Its funny as I have the QW 787 and I find I can just fire that up and go without having read the manual. I’ve also invested in the FSL 320, JAR design A330 and FF A350 but I just sit and stare at those confused, I suppose I should try reading their manuals that might help 🙂

The Airbus vs Boeing debate rages on in real world flying also , I’ve heard of at least one drunken bar fight years ago between Boeing and Airbus pilots started by a my aeroplane is better than yours routine.

My airline operates both types and there is always inter fleet banter.When we had A340-300s the standing joke was that they were powered by 4 hairdryers due to their rather small, (in comparison to the 747 )engines.

Our 747 fleet manager for many years was a Fantastic, really nice guy, called George. He once told me the story that when we placed an order for the new A340-600 he received a taunting email from the Airbus fleet manager with a photo of the much larger RR engines hanging on the wing with just the words “ Big aren’t they” to which George quickly  replied “ very nice.....are they dual voltage?’

 

[birdguy 3,943]

I am awed by the power and work that went into flight simulators from the very beginning to what we have now.  And no doubt some of them are used by serious flight students.  In fact I was watching an episode of Ice Pilots the other day and they use one for training.

But for every flight simmer I personally know, and there are several, it is  pastime.  It's a game.  A very enjoyable game.  An addictive game for some.

Aa far as complexity goes for PMDG or FSL I play other computer games that have degrees of complexity.  Chess and Scrabble.  I can make them as easy or difficult as I choose.

For me it is a pleasant pastime and a reminder of days gone by.  But it no way does it put me back into the cockpit of a real airplane.

Noel

[NZ255 309]

1 hour ago, jon b said:

so I’m presented with a choice

Can you’d a ‘ride along’ before choosing?

[Vindeballe 60]

6 hours ago, birdguy said:

For me it is a pleasant pastime and a reminder of days gone by.  But it no way does it put me back into the cockpit of a real airplane.

Noel

Just my words, I never understood the problem with game versus simulator, I enjoy it whatever it is called.

[Captain Kevin 586]

On 7/19/2019 at 9:40 AM, ailchim said:

An early glass cockpit B737 NGX suffered a terrible accident at East Midlands Airport when one engine failed and the crew misinterpreted the new instrumentation and shut down the other working engine on approach to an emergency landing, crashing on the M1 motorway at Kegworth.

That wouldn't have been the Boeing 737 NGX, as the Kegworth disaster happened in 1989, and PMDG didn't release the 737 NGX until 2011. That said, it was a Boeing 737-400 involved in that accident, so that would actually be the Classic, not the NG.