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Anyone hoping the vintage birds return???

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Just wondering how many would like to see default birds like the DC3, Ford Tri-Motor, and DH-88 Comet (my favorite) return...

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Guest Id Rather Be Flying

>Just wondering how many would like to see default birds like>the DC3, Ford Tri-Motor, and DH-88 Comet (my favorite)>return...Sure hope so. I like the J3 (float &/or ski version would be great along with a clipped wing) & DC-3. Definitely looking forward to hoping in the Maule.Carmine http://forums.avsim.net/images/wave.gifhttp://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7118/phoenixtp8mg.jpg

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I am not so sure if it is worth it...and I say this honestly - the only two default aircraft I have flown would be the Cessna and the lear (and then for about 15 minutes - until the download for PMDG 737 completed)I have not loaded a single other one, I changed the configs so they dont even display anymore. One day I may go back and take a quick look at the panels (probably not though)

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Guest Jimbofly

It's a pity, because the vintage birds in FS9 are actually modelled very well, and have quite good cockpits.I certainly hope such aircraft as the DC3, J3 Cub, and DeHavilland Comet make a comeback in FSX!James

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""It's a pity, because the vintage birds in FS9 are actuallymodelled very well, and have quite good cockpits.I certainly hope such aircraft as the DC3, J3 Cub, andDeHavilland Comet make a comeback in FSX!""James, right now many simmers are shaking their heads going "huh?" lol. It would be cool to see new ones since I can probably import the FS9 ones into it if needed. I'd like some WWII aircraft thrown in, say a P-40 or a TBM, those are some serious taldraggers, LOL Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

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Guest garwig2

For me personally, I only need them if they have something new about them, new liveries, improved flight dynamics, upgraded panels, etc. Otherwise, I can just import the ones from FS04 into FSX. But for the commercial success of the product, I think it would be great if they carried on with the Cub, Trimotor, DC-3, and maybe the Vega. Other vintage birds that would be nice to see are the P-51, B-17, Constellation, and 707. And let's bring back the Camel.-Gary Letona

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Guest

I agree, they feel well done and until I got the MAAM R4D I flew the default DC3 quite a lot.I still take out some of the oldies once in a while, though probably not as often as they'd like to.We had a lot of fun (and some frustration) last year flying the Comet, Jenny, Vimy, and the rest during the RTW race (which we're practicing for again, hint hint).

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Guest fsxcess

I think that the aircraft that come with FS should be used as a marker and showcase for the new features. It would be really great if the FS Team limited the number of aircraft down (5 only) but made them full of the technology that the new version of FS can offer. Combine this with the complete source release for the models and gauges in the SDK and well, you will end up with a benchmark from which to start from. Finding out how to use the new technology seems to be the first problem for devs when a new FS comes out so this would be a really good start.1. Helicopter2. Glider3. Light Aircraft4. Turbo Prop5. AirlinerThe "Century of Flight" theme is over now (it was for 2004 only) so it should be dropped for more modern aircraft.

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I love the DC3 that came with FS9. Absolutely gorgeous aircraft. No wonder they used that for their cover.I hope they don't drop that. I also liked the cub.Manny

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Guest christian

I'm another fan of the oldies. They're well done and would be sorely missed on my system, that's for sure...Christian

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I totally agree with this opinion. Instead of so many default planes concentrate on a very limited number but model these better than what has been done till now. I know many use the default "Cessna" but I would say many others use it only to load some add-on =P. Don't get me wrong, it flys great but that panel has to go. If Carnaedo can do it then so can MS!...............Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

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Guest Peter Sidoli

I too would go with quality rather than quantity. Like most here I rarely use the default aircraft but as said before we are the minority.The majority may never take FS further than the default product and they have to be catered for in full.The majority as far as quality and realism goes wouldnt know the difference anyway so as long as it looks good thats all they need.I would love to see LevelD or PMDG quality releases as default but Joe public would be lost with products like those.Peter

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Guest Andre_Hedegaard

Personally, I think I might be the only one here that actually enjoy the default aircraft tremendously and use them 7/8 of the time.The quality is great and we see new features added with each edition of FS which is what makes my enjoyment waiting for FSX even greater.I do miss the Concorde though, strangely it seems I'm one of the few.As for vintage aircraft, no thanks - we have enough, not because of the quality, but because of personal appeal.I'm also the type that flies with my keyboard, therefore this post probably won't be taken seriously :((Although my forcefeedback joystick just sits packed away in the cupboard, its become tradition for me to remain faithful to the keyboard since FS3)

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I enjoy all the default aircraft with the exception of the Cessna Caravan and the two Boeings 744/737. 'All' the other aircraft are nicely done with great FDE's especially the Cessna 172/182...

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>aircraft are nicely done with great FDE's especially the>Cessna 172/182...Having about 300 hours on real 172 I can say that FS 172 is sepcially poorly done. But we know Dillon you are great expert and you speak with lots of authority on the subject of FDE, specially wide bodies.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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Michael that was totally uncalled for and seeing I have real world experience in the 172 myself I find the FS9 models more than acceptable (as long as you're using Yoke/Peddles controllers).Since non of us fly heavies in the real world, non of us have room to talk about anyone here. I don't think it's worth getting into a 'who I know and who you know' argument. Over the internet it's not even worth my time. I'll just say I live in an area that host a few major airlines (Norhwest, Sun Country, etc). I've also worked for FEDEX and have flown in the cockpits (jumpseat) of 727's, DC10's, and MD11's many times prior to 9/11. I've taken full advantage of the Level-D simulators present in my area thanks to good friends of mine. With all that exposure if I don't know what the #### I'm talking about, I'm pretty sure you don't either... :-roll

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Guest christian

I think the vintage aircraft stand out in quality to the other defaults - a lot more work seems to have gone into them.As for the C172 FDE - try spinning it or side slipping. It won't work. Personally, I don't care if the turn rate is 100% accurate, simply because it also varies in real aircraft, but it would be nice if all default FDEs include the basic behaviour and I count spinning as basic flight dynamics.Cheers,Christian

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Christian I have to agree with you that when it comes to spinning, there's allot to be desired... In the context of FS9 as a whole Microsoft can do allot more all around with the FDE simulation in all FS aircraft. There are some wonderful FDE's produced for X-Plane which rival anything yet made for FS9. RealAir have given us great models over the years but not everyone is able to sidestep the limitations of Flight Simulator the way they do... The many Freeware/Paywares developers out there have done some wonderful work but we still have a ways to go. Hopefully FSX advances the series in this area as I'm sure improvements are always a possibility...

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>Michael that was totally uncalled for and seeing I have real>world experience in the 172 myself Just for start Flight1's 172 both spins and side-slips very well (I am far less demanding in the spinning area but consider side-slip a mandatory maneuver). So side-slip is not a built-in limitation of FS9 as you want us to believe, by the way Flight1's 172 is not the only aircraft where you can practice side-slip in FS9 - there are many of them. Also both aircraft - the default 172 and Flight1's 172 have completely different 'feel' to them - only one of them can be right. I know which happens to be right because I have my share of time in a real aircraft under vary different weight, altitude conditions. Default 172 is so far from the real 172 that I would not recommend it as a training platform to anybody but to my worst enemies. Sorry Dillon, I don't believe you at all that you have any time in a real 172, stop trying to convince me, it is not going to work. I recall many of your past posts on the subject of avionics and FDEs and you have zero credibility with me in this area.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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Guest christian

I don't think it's a FS9 limitation. I believe the Extra can spin also. The problem is that the FDE format isn't well known and probably a lot of developers don't know what they're doing. There is a table in the FDE that allows you to make planes spin (so I believe). I think Rob Young (RealAir) just knows what he's doing :)Christian

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We also have to keep in mind MS's target audience for default aircraft. Certainly they do not develope these with us hard core simmers in mind but the general public at large who do not care exactly how a plane slips or slides :-). That being said, I am more concerned with the tools for the 3rd party developers to create even more accurate FDEs within the MSFS environment. I've flown in one cockpit in my life, that being a CJ1 a few months back. I remember seeing some rain a few miles ahead from the plane and was was not expecting the aircraft to be forced downward when entering this area, not greatly but enough to ask "why did that happen"?. This also brings to mind "windshear" and the total lack of effect or simulation upon any aircraft in FS. If you enter winshear, not only are you forced to loose or gain altitude but one's performance is effected greatly, leaving the windshear area most times causes tail winds which coupled with loss of performace and altitude is a serious pilot attention situation. This type of situation is a part of every real pilot's experience yet is 100% lacking in our current simulation. I hope this will change sometime... ...............Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

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Guest robby88

Yes - I certainly hope the vintage aircraft return in FS X. I mainly fly vintage types anyway in FS9 so I would be disappointed if they disappeared in FSX. The vintage aircraft are pretty good visually as it is. There shouldn't be too much work for MS to upgrade these for FS X.

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Guest Derek D

I really can't understand why people are always selling short the default aircraft. Perhaps they may not use the highest resolution textures or place a gauge in the correct spot to the exact millimeter, but one thing that can be said about the defaults is that they are 100% compatible and functional in the game. The default aircraft in many cases DO serve as benchmarks for what can be achieved with 3rd party aircraft.Speaking of 3rd party aircraft, I can't tell you how many times I have downloaded a freeware aircraft only to find that it is technologically inferior to the defaults, such as the VCs aren't clickable or there is no door animation. I say that with all due respect to any aircraft designers out there of course. And then you have the payware aircraft, which often are very professional--but one plane can cost as much as the entire simulator, which itself comes packaged with dozens of quality aircraft. On top of all that, you can't even be certain that the person who made the aircraft has any flight experience at all.Anyway I didn't mean to get into a big freeware/payware thing, the point I'm trying to make is that the defaults can be quite good if you just give them a chance and overcome the stereotype that they must somehow be junk because MS gives them to you for free.Derek D.

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Anyway I didn't mean to get into a big freeware/payware thing,the point I'm trying to make is that the defaults can be quitegood if you just give them a chance and overcome thestereotype that they must somehow be junk because MS givesthem to you for free.Excellent point Derek! I still fly the 206 on a regular basis. Funny, looking at the new FS aircraft I am kinda bummed, I mean I already have a good beaver and Goose, curious to see how nice the new defaults will be, LOLRegards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

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