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What We Want (Part 1)

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Concerning what someone said about combine the sim with ETS/ATS jobs style. Imagine that with realistic handling animation and services (you aircraft being loaded with ULD's and/or passengers). That could be awesome!

Edited by aleex

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One thing I would like to see that I do not believe has been mentioned would be continuous delivery of product updates. This is a practice of delivering updates in a continual manner without being release dependent on a quarterly or semi-annual basis.

This would mean that after MSFS is released to production, smaller updates are deployed to production without the need for a user's intervention (except maybe restarting the app).

Practically speaking, this would mean that when enhancements to an existing aircraft are ready, or when photogrammetry is available for a new city, or when a new feature is available for the weather engine, the updated code would be delivered when ready. This would result in having updates few days or weeks as new features, functionality, or enhancements are ready.

 

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@MikeT707 -  I get the feeling that it will be that way.  MS calls Windows X a service instead of operating system and I think they want us to think of MSFS the same way... as a service to be updated, changed, expanded...indefinitely. dont really know though.


|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

There's always a sunset happening somewhere in the world that somebody is enjoying.

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Sounds amazing to me.

I have no desire to spend anytime doing updates myself.  

I'd really like that to be automagically handled.

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that would be an absolute dream for me. The release would be possible earlier in something, in which then is improved step by step. But this would probably rather a subscription needed. Do not you think so?

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5 minutes ago, sightseer said:

@MikeT707 -  I get the feeling that it will be that way.  MS calls Windows X a service instead of operating system and I think they want us to think of MSFS the same way... as a service to be updated, changed, expanded...indefinitely. dont really know though.

I would imagine and hope this is the case. That could also be a reason why Microsoft is not attaching a date to the title like MSFS, 2002, MSFS 2004, MSFS 2020, as those dates pass like a car model year.

By calling it MSFS, the name of the product does not hark back to the past, rather is continuously improves and evolves as more features are added (new aircraft or new city grammetry) and enhancements are made (weather system upgrades, airport enhancements, or new ATC regional accents, ).

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exactly, Mike.  thats my thinking too.

 

and to Pitbull - im 99.9% certain you don't have to worry about subscriptions becuase the most recent news had that reply to Chock about the money in unmarked bills and the phone with a text that says 'no subscription'


|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

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17 minutes ago, Mark II said:

So, if you do not want the story to keep on repeating itself, I would suggest you/all to rethink your approach. My approach is based on STARs and approach charts to study & analyze, I do not want Mario Karting in the sky again and again and again and again and again and again....

Going by that logic all the sims currently here are arcade games. I think you're not really thinking this through. Besides, there are plenty of offerings for charts. If MS were to include charts for all airports and keep them current you'd most probably indeed be looking at some kind of subscription.

That said, I would love for the sim to include a whole navdata database with update functionality (Navigraph and the likes) that also supports SIDs and STARs.

Edited by threegreen

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29 minutes ago, Pitbull2504 said:

But this would probably rather a subscription needed. Do not you think so? 

No, this has to do with deploying updates more frequently and behind the scenes. For instance, P3D releases a minor release (point release) every 4 moths or so and include a long list of updates. That point release (4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc.) requires the user to intervene by removing files and adding files, or in the case of X-Plane, the user has to click through an update wizard.

The update model that I am mentioning would release the long list of updates in smaller chunks and when they are ready. So one week the platform would release five items, the next week, maybe seven, the week after that three items, but basically as updates are ready, they release them soon after.

And when those frequent updates are made available, they load behind the scenes with no user action needed. This is much like what happens with YouTube updates, Google application updates, and updates to many games on Steam.

The product development methodology utilizes an agile approach with continuous delivery/deployment.

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9 minutes ago, Spac3Rat said:

I wouldn't make such a thorough list to start with. I'll be happy if 50% of that list actually make the initial build.

Can a new flight simulator be a success if it only does 50% of what we can already get in our current flight sims? 

Some of that list of helicopter features are custom plugins like the searchlight and (I think?) some of the autopilot modes. But I think the core flight model should include features like VRS, icing, individual blade modeling, retreating blade stall etc. for a couple off reasons.

First, that stuff isn't the kind of thing that a 3rd party developer should have to code for themselves in an addon aircraft model. If it's already in the base sim, then it's much easier for addon developers to create accurate helicopter models. All of this goes for fixed wing flight dynamics too, of course.

The second reason it should be in the default sim is that any helicopter in the new MSFS (assuming we get any) will inevitably be compared to what we can fly now in XP11, DCS, and FSX/P3D. For a new and competitive flight sim, we should expect equal performance and features, if not even better. Otherwise why bother?

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34 minutes ago, Pitbull2504 said:

I understand what you mean. but Xbox is a company that wants and needs to make money. These types of updates would be free in this form. And updating costs money.

Couple of things to consider. It is likely that MSFS would release in a feature complete state, however, some features might have a roadmap for improvement such as ATC (as an example). Let's say ATC releases with both keyboard and voice interaction for English, Spanish, and French and has three regional accents. MS could find it profitable to add German and Japanese voice interaction and add three more regional accents. This might increase the appeal for more people to purchase the product.

Second, it would be important to continue to improve the product over time to keep selling MSFS to new customers or if it is part of an Xbox pass to have an offering that adds value to the Xbox pass, much like how Netflix continues to create new show content.

Third, this is a good way to keep a solid segment of the user base engaged. For instance, As an example, let's say MSFS is released with 15 missions and missions are important to a certain percentage of the consumer base. By adding a few new missions, that segment of the consumer base is more likely to stay engaged and by being engaged, MS could offer DLC that they would purchase. This DLC could include a set of premium missions, aircraft, or other goodies that would be important to this segment. To add, good customer engagement would lead to more third party sales, of which MS would likely take a cut as the publisher. This is a good way to keep people interested so they come to the "MSFS Store" to purchase MS or third party add-ons and MS can well capitalize on their platform.

Last, if third party content providers utilize the same deployment stream, things will be much easier on "install-reinstall-reinstall again" weary simmers. Happy users that can purchase and maintain add-ons in the MSFS platform with no pain can be a beautiful thing.

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1 hour ago, Mark II said:

MS claims they are listening, there is therefore zero reasons MS doesn't include this fundamental simulation aspect in their product, why should they keep STARs and SIDs out ???

The only reason would be because MSFS 2020 is being ported straight from MS Flight aka as " the Century Fiasco ". If true, that alone would kill the entire project before it surfaces

But why should they have them in? If I want them, I just use the real things (you can't get more realistic than that) - I don't need them to be built in to the sim. It doesn't make the scenery look any more realistic, the weather look more convincing or the aircraft fly better. They're just a procedural thing that you can use in any current sim. Using an approach plate doesn't automatically turn an arcade game into a sim (or vice versa). Some people, even in the real world, never use SIDs or STARs. Does that mean that they're not really flying? Do you really think that nobody in the upcoming Insider program will notice if MSFS is rubbish?

What is " the Century Fiasco " (is that just your name for something)?

Edited by vortex681

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I echo a bunch of folks that I'd like to see better ATC, traffic, lighting, seasons, more accurate airports and recent nav data out of the box.  Weather, clouds and more advanced modeling of default aircraft are also nice features out of the box.  For me, just a decent core simulator that provides 3rd party development a way to extend it to places we've only dreamed about until now - not sure of anything specific necessarily, but just a robust SDK that doesn't handcuff the development community.  I'll not expect MS to deliver everything on our wish lists, but I hope they create a way forward that allows very talented 3rd party developers to shine in what they do best.

I think streaming world data is the future, but I'm somewhat concerned that currently there are inherent problems with this idea, unless MS has figured out a way to stream this data via low bandwidth.  I'm only speaking for my situation, but I would venture to say that I'm not the only one that is bandwidth limited.  Where I live, there is only one internet provider.  The maximum download speed I can get is 20Mbs over fixed wireless and I pay a very hefty price for this service.  The other issue is data caps, I do not have data caps for my service, but others do, so I'm not sure how this will work out, especially in the US market.  Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see a study level heavy metal aircraft on final approach into KLAX whilst streaming the approach and it's prime time in the area and the Super Bowl is on and everyone around you is streaming at the same time...should be fun to see.  So, until I can actually see what the requirements are for streaming the world to my pc or whatever device, then I may have to opt for the "off-line" license.  I am hoping that the off-line version will be a step (hahaha...large step) above the current state of FSX:Steam and P3Dv4 out of the box, especially in the default features offered - land classes, mesh in particular and the other items I mention above out of the box.  Again, I'm not closing the door for either, but I eagerly anticipate what MS has to offer with MSFS - and hopefully a few Easter Eggs thrown in for old time sake.  I keep hope alive that I can get better internet service...maybe one day it will happen - maybe the bandwidth requirements not so bad for 720 or 1080 - I think either is doable on my service, but 4k is outside the realm of possibility for me.  Maybe the resolution being streamed fluctuates based on available bandwidth similar to watching a live event by streaming.  Who knows...but I for one am stoked and looking forward to MSFS.

Thanks for listening

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A flight planner that is much easier to use. A big map which is easily scrolled around, zoom in/out on mouse wheel. 

Be able to plot multiple flights one after the other, similar to FSW. That was a decent flight planner IMO.


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For me the priorities would be....

More realistic ATC with sids and stars.

More detailed global coverage so we can explore more "out of the way" destinations.

As a cockpit builder i would like full access all systems to be able assign external knobs and switches including a fully implemented G1000.

A more accurate flight model.

Good frame rates without tweaking!

Cheers

Stinger

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