How is it that we failed New Orleans?

[Donmo 6]

I know. Republicans only believe the polls when they favor themselves. When they are down, polls for some reason become inaccurate. I just saw tonight,when ALL polls are averaged, he's at 42% Wow!The statement of the majority was based on the poll. As the numbers get smaller, more are not liking him. Is this too hard to understand? So, if only 42% LIKE HIM, then, 58% do NOT. 58% is a majority. Now....280 million. Ok....how many can vote? How many have a usable brain? I know back in November only 49% had a working brain. Here is a timeline through Wednesday for you to look over. Bush is NOT as clean as is being spun, and they are playing a word game with this Govenor.Friday, August 26GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA [Office of the Governor]GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honor

[Donmo 6]

LMFAO! "Entire story" and "FOX" are apples and oranges. That is a good one. Don

[BobK 0]

Oh, yeah, there ya go. The world according to Michael Moore. Who lied? All of those Democrats who had claimed that Saddam had WMD, back while CLINTON was president, and now say that Bush lied about it? Those guys - Kerry, Kennedy, Gore, Biden, Graham, etc, etc... Look up their records - they all made those claims based on evidence available. THey changed thier stories once Bush started getting good ratings, and they started getting nervous about the 2004 election. They lied to you, and you know it. You, being such an informed citizen already knew this, but you let the news media and Democrats distract you.In this case, you see the real evidence in front of you, in video and print, but you want to continue to see the world according to Michael Moore.

[Guest B1900 Mech]

Unwagging the Dog http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0912-31.htm

[BobK 0]

THere's a lot missing there - not a surprise, like:NHS Director, Dr. Max Mayfield begs Mayor Navin to order mandatory evacutation. Navin responds, "we'll get back to you". And there's some contridictions. Accounts I've read said that the Governor and Mayor informed the Feds that they were handling it, when asked what they needed. And this was NOT from Fox.The local government is responsible for local evacuations, not the Feds. They had hundreds of busses in New Orleans that were never used, and ended up getting flooded.

[BobK 0]

Wonderful - "quotes" from the Washington Post and New York Times.Lets see - one day the Post complains in an editorial that Bush is taking too long to nominate a replacement for Justice O'Connor. That same day, Bush nominates John Roberts. The next day, the Post claims that the timing of the nomination is suspicious, and suggests that Bush is trying to "wag the dog", and distract people from the Karl Rove issue.Speaking of Rove, the NY Times, Washington Post and other news agencies, in open court, claimed that reporters should not go to jail for not telling who gave the Valerie Plame information, contending that she was NOT a "covert operative", because she had been in the US for more than 6 (or whatever) years, and that her "cover", if there ever was any, was blown years ago. Yet they printed daily articles and editorials talking about the administration official who blew the cover of a "covert operative". Did you miss that part?Both of those papers have a habit of misquoting people, then burying the retraction in the back of the paper - if they correct themselves at all.They have a long and glorious record of Bush-bashing. I'd believe the Red Cross before them. This argument is really a waste of time, since neither side will sway the other. The important thing is to get those people the help they need, and make sure that it's handled correctly next time.

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

They're all biased to some degree. And it depends on the subjects too with how far biased. FOX, when it comes to Gen Av, has railroaded it with blatant spins. Anyone remember the story with the reporter flying with a guy near a nucular power facility? General Electric had a scandal a while ago, did you hear about it? MSNBC wouldn't even touch it since it's partially owned by GE. CNN is generally critical and sensationalizes stories involving firearms, trying to paint self-defense situations as vigilante-ism. The only way you're going to get fair and balanced news is to research into it yourself like Sonar5 did with his article.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[Donmo 6]

HA! HA! HA! Funny. Did Clinton start a war based on lies? #### NO! Was Clinton mentioned in the 10 Downing Street memo? #### NO! Video? The Miles O'brien tape? He had that woman so screwed up, it isn't funny. Can't say CNN is biased there! I like Miles O'brien, but I didn't like him treating this woman as if she was on trial, with rapid questions, and rewording questions. If Bush would allow a real unrehearsed forum, he would blow it in a minute, and you know it. He's a freaking idiot! C student! HA! I'm also not a Mike Moore leftist. I've never seen any of his films. I don't need someone to tell me something is wrong. I'm well educated, and I know when something isn't right. What has happened in the past 5 years, isn't right. But again, I'm not brainwashed, nor am I blindfully led.Don

[tf51d 284]

She is so mixed up by now, I can't blame her for getting words and days mixed up. When the area was declared a FEDERAL disaster area, that should have sent up a flag for FEDERAL troops and help. Again, she used the word EVERYTHING. When you come across a man having a heart attack, do you wait until he specifically asks for CPR? #### no!Exactly! This is the part that FOX and all the Bush Apologists leaves out. The request and declaration of a Federal Disaster disaster area, authorizes the Federal Government to act, and coordinate aid. State Governments requests this PRIOR to the storm in case communications are broken afterwards. After which it falls on FEMA in consultation and authorization with the President if need be, to coordinate whatever aid is needed from the Federal Government, They also estimate what additional appropriations if any are needed that Congress would have to authorize. This argument that it is illegal to send in the troops is ludicrise. Yes in normal times it is. In times of emergency though the President does have the executive power to declare Martial Law, allowing the troops in. He doesn't need any further state authorization to do this if an emergency is declared, which it was. I just wonder what FOX and these same people would say if this happened the same way under the Clinton Administration? You know they would crucify him, and rightfully so. Why should it be any different for anybody else. On the plus side, this General Ornore that Bush appointed to take over, seems just what is needed to get done what needs to be done. Reminds me of General Patton!!!

[Guest Philip Olson]

I don't understand why it is that even very intelligent people fall prey to their own bias. I know that people do not want to be wrong but all too often they completely ignore certain facts just so they can place blame on "the other guy". There is plenty of blame to go around here but no one can dispute that the state and local authorities mucked things up far worse than anyone else did. Well if one can get past their own bias they should be able to see this. Personally I think that we would all be better off worrying about helping people and then assign the blame after all of those that have suffered are taken care of. Sadly the politicians are going to make a big deal out of this so they can gain points. As for the media, they are all bias, none of them are pure news. I like Fox because they do give a more "rounded" view of the news. Now Fox does have a lot of commentators that put a further right spin on things but the actual news, and yes you have to break it down, does seem to go a little deeper at times than the other networks. If you ask a journalism student why they want to be in the news business they will say more than likely that they want to change the world, sadly that is not what journalism is for. Shouldn't the news be a straight reporting of the facts without any slant or personal bias? To my knowledge I have not found anyplace that does this which is really sad. I want pure news, the facts from which I can make my own choices about it but most reporters write stories with their own agenda included. I think that very often this is done without their meaning too but they are not trained well enough on how to seperate their personal bias out from their writing. I guess it all comes down to money though, you have to get people to watch your news program so you have to make it interesting and hence you lose the facts and gain sensationalism. One thing that I have found interesting though is that if you ask a person which news source is the most rounded and least biased they will inveriably say which ever source is the one that most closely represents their political ideology. That tells me that we as a people do not care about the facts so much as we care that the facts match out world view. Very sad but very interesting, don't you think?Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[Guest B1900 Mech]

Good points Philip,But I could never understand the argument that the media is liberal and left leaning,when they are all owned by right wing multinational corps.? For example, WestingHouse, GE etc.And It just seems that the working class (Me:-)) standard of living is going to crap, while the rich profit from our increasing misery.

[tf51d 284]

There is plenty of blame to go around here but no one can dispute that the state and local authorities mucked things up far worse than anyone else did.Your rght, there is plenty of blame to go around, State and local governments did muck things up as you say in regards to the failure to execute their evacuation and emergency disaster plan. However for the President of the United States to continue his vacation, after seeing the Levies break on Tuesday, and it was evident that atleast 80% of one of our major cities was completely under water, is inexcuseable no matter how you slice it. I don't know of any other President, that would not of returned to Washington, and take command of the situation. I bet you if you asked his Father what he would have done, he would have sent in immediate aid on starting on Tuesday. We were able to deliver aid in the Tsunami within 24 hours, why weren't we able to do it here. This is why I blame the Federal Government more. The President ultimately has to take responsibility for this. Because of his inaction early on people have died, that may have lived, if they got those people out of the Superdome, and Convention Center earlier, or at least sent in supplies. They could have be sent in by helicopter. It's amazing what got done, once he did get into gear! If he only acted sooner!!! As President Truman was famous for saying. "The buck stops here"!!!

[btacon 1,772]

Excerpt from an interview with Mayor Nagin on Meet the Press. The two passages are telling. When he (nagin) blames the feds, they have no excuse...but when Tim Russert points out Nagins failures..."who could have known, Cat 5 Hurricane, etc"My only point here is this finger pointing while we are still looking for bodies and have 1 million displaced citizens is not only silly, it is distracting us from our real problems facing us, such as:* What to do with 1 million displaced citizens* How to feed them, support them, mainstream them back into society, both short term and long term* Focusing not on people, but focus on our process failures and roadblocks. Only then will we be able to protect ourselves from a repeat of this.Those are largely short to mid-term. True long term is:* How to clean up New Orleans, no matter what we do with it* What about Lake Ponchatraine? What have we done to it?* Should we keep New Orleans where it is at, or start fresh and move it?* No matter what, who pays? How? Private industry? Federal funds? What about state/local? So many fluid issues that should be addressed before we blame one or two people...This was not Hurricane Bush, Nagin, or even Blanco. It was "an act of God" as they say in the insurance biz. If we want to win (and survive) the long-term game, we need to keep things in perspective.My 2 cents,btRussert/Nagin Meet the Press interview excerpted and linked below:http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9240461/MAYOR NAGIN: My biggest mistake is having a fundamental assumption that in the state of Louisiana, with an $18 billion budget, in the country of the United States that can move whole fleets of aircraft carriers across the globe in 24 hours, that my fundamental assumption was get as many people to safety as possible, and that the cavalry would be coming within two to three days, and they didn't come. MR. RUSSERT: Many people point, Mr. Mayor, that on Friday before the hurricane, President Bush declared an impending disaster. And The Houston Chronicle wrote it this way. "[Mayor Nagin's] mandatory evacuation order was issued 20 hours before the storm struck the Louisiana coast, less than half the time researchers determined would be needed to get everyone out. City officials had 550 municipal buses and hundreds of additional school buses at their disposal but made no plans to use them to get people out of New Orleans before the storm, said Chester Wilmot, a civil engineering professor at Louisiana State University and an expert in transportation planning, who helped the city put together its evacuation plan." And we've all see this photograph of these submerged school buses. Why did you not declare, order, a mandatory evacuation on Friday, when the president declared an emergency, and have utilized those buses to get people out? MAYOR NAGIN: You know, Tim, that's one of the things that will be debated. There has never been a catastrophe in the history of New Orleans like this. There has never been any Category 5 storm of this magnitude that has hit New Orleans directly. We did the things that we thought were best based upon the information that we had. Sure, here was lots of buses out there. But guess what? You can't find drivers that would stay behind with a Category 5 hurricane, you know, pending down on New Orleans. We barely got enough drivers to move people on Sunday, or Saturday and Sunday, to move them to the Superdome. We barely had enough drivers for that. So sure, we had the assets, but the drivers just weren't available.

[Guest]

There was no war based on lies.The so-called Downing Street memos were fakes or way overblown, just as the supposed documents produced by the Kerry team which supposedly showed the president deserted from the military.You can't seem to get it into your head that you've sold your soul to a bunch of raving lunatic hardline socialists who don't care about the truth as long as they get their way and will bluntly state one thing, think something else, and do the exact opposite.But of course your only source of news is Kos and the DU, the most unbiassed and levelheaded (cough cough) sources of information on the net if you're a leftwing lunatic.

[Guest]

Simple: unlike your leftwing friends the rightthinking part of the world believes in personal freedom, freedom of expression, and freedom of the press.The owners of those papers therefore consider it to be outside their rights to censor what those papers can print.This quite in contrast to leftwingers who will block anything that doesn't agree with their point of view.