How is it that we failed New Orleans?

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

I'm not Bush's biggest fan, but from the infromation and paper trail already available, you can see that the local and state level did not take the necessary steps to allow federal aid to start. Our founding fathers set it up so there would be strong state government and a weak central government so the states have rights that the federal government could not breach without the state's permission. The state said they had it under control, the city's official evacuation plan claimed to have things that would be used that weren'. The only place that I can see you could harp on Bush for in this is that didn't activate the Insurgency Act which would have allowed him to give Louisiana the finger and send federal and out-of-state troops in without the state's permission.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[N400QW 205]

Joe, Good job on the research...looks like we found an issue to agree on for once:-)It seems that any thinking person would recognize the failures of the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA..but thanks for taking the time to spell it out for folks with plenty of facts as well.It appears that while the Mayor was showboating for the cameras, and attempting to order the President and Governor around, he should have been looking at his own failures. The parked buses say more about his own failures than any accusation he may make about the Federal/State Agencies or the Bush Administration:-)

[Guest Shalomar]

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!3 facts:1. The feds were criticised for acting TOO quickly after Hurricane Francis.2. Not everyone was so happy about plans to use the Guardsmen in increasing combat role, because that would drain resources from disaster response. This deployment is stretching an already stretched military capability. If you factor in time to get a unit retrained to combat-ready status after a deployment that does not keep up their skills, like peacekeeping/civil defense, it's even worse.FACT three: What the heck are $500,000+ homes doing next to $500,000,00+ casinos a few hundred feet from the beach? Cuz they know if it's a declared a disaster area they'll be rebuilt. Maybe some in New Orleans couldn't afford to live anywhere else, but there have got to be more consequenses for stupidos who choose to put expensive structures in harm's way and don't spend more to build them safe. Rich people don't get rich throwing away money, if you take away the net they'll build smarter if not somewhere else entirely.

[dmaher 0]

Isn't it a little early to be making these kind of conclusions? No doubt there were problems all through the command structure. Was FEMA effective? The port of New Orleans is of national importance..was it protected as such? Don't you want an impartial investigation? It's remarkable the way people simply rally behind Bush. I'm saying everyone in the chain of command needs scrutinizing...all the way to the top. These are your representatives...hold them to it. I don't see CNN, FOX, MSNBC..etc so I guess I'm not emersed in the spin. I fear that's a huge factor. BTW I'm not a democrat...I'm a Canadian :)Danny

[btacon 1,790]

Hey Danny...I'm a Canadian too, (Hamilton Ont. 1957)Why is it "Rally around Bush" in your mind?Is Bush responsible for every evil that happens on the planet?bt

[btacon 1,790]

And you're a fool, Mr. Troop.Sorry...had to say it the way it was.Guess you'll never understand that I'm a lifelong democrat.Cheers,bt

[Guest P3_Super_Bee]

Yep its all Bush's fault, sorry, but let me pick myself off the floor from that laugh attack...Ahhh lets go back to 1998 During Hurricane George... 14,000 people were evacuated to the Superdome, and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadeqate Security... Then there is Hurricane Ivan another evacuation was given for New Orleans. No city or school buses were used in the evacuation, so those that didn't own cars or New Orleans poorest were left behind. At this time Gov Blanco, and Mayor Nagin ACKNOWLEDGED the need for a better plan....Hmmm... 13 months ago New Orleans simulated a Hurricane Drill, guess what?, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans... Using the fleet of city and school buses 12,000 people can be evac'ed every run... During Katrina, zero were used, nor move to high ground so most were casulties of the flood.I'm thinkin' their are two people who are at fault... Neither of 'em are named Bush... http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219http://publish.hometown.aol.com/p3superb/i...s/sign_name.jpg

[Guest]

Here's the latest:The city and state denied aid organisations (and specifically the Red Cross) access to the Superdome and convention center because helping the people there would (or so the reasoning went) make those people not want to leave.The Red Cross on monday had truckloads of food and sanitary supplies (plus blankets etc.) ready to roll and could have provided relief for the thousands stuck in the superdome and elsewhere but they were ordered to pull back.This was days before the mayor attacked the president for not caring for those very same people...

[Guest Philip Olson]

Hey Troop, You are right up there with my ex mother-in-law, you provide me with a lot of entertainment! What is it with certain people, is there a bash Bush club where it is cool to come up with the best insult while staying completely away from the truth? Do you get merit badges? Let me clue you in to something, people tend to laugh at or ignore people who engage in personal attacks, especially if they are not based in fact. As you can read in the posts above Bush offered help 3 days before the storm and that help was declined so I ask you who is to blame? I am not holding Bush blameless, I do think that there is more that the feds could have done but the majority of the fault lies with the state and local leaders not with Bush. Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[dmaher 0]

"Is Bush responsible for every evil that happens on the planet?" Absolutely not :) Even in the matter of Katrina, I don't imagine the president himself has anything to hide. Basically he had to relay a call from the governor to FEMA...which happen on Saturday from what I understand. As far as dike funding, well, there are two wars on I think people recognize this wasn't going to be a banner year for public works. I think that's fair isn't it? Sure, hindsight makes things real clear, but I'm not convinced that it was wrong. The same goes for funding FEMA. The only other criticism I hear is the FEMA director he appointed didn't have relevant experience. Well that's unfortunate if he ever got called to action, but Bush can fix this easily if he comes to believe this man didn't perform...he fires him. What I was really commenting on above was the urge to rest all of the blame on local government. It just sounds like a knee jerk reaction to protect the entire federal administration...even,BTW, if they didn't do anything wrong. I did not intend to blame Bush...just saying the blame game works both ways. Wow, This thread has stayed civil...only at AVSIM...I'm seriously impressed. Danny

[tf51d 284]

No one can argue that the failure to evacuate and execute the emergency disaster plan was anybody's fault other than the local, and state governments. The delay in response after the levies failed though is primarilly the Federal Government's fault. Fema was totally ineffective, and I think the reason for this, is the change in reporting structure from reporting directly to the President, so he can dissimilate the information directly, to reporting to Homeland Security, whose primary focus is on terrorism not natural disasters. Yes maybe Homeland Security should take command in a torrorist attack, but FEMA should be in command in Natural Disasters, where they have the expertise. Part of the delay in getting airlift capability was Homeland Security wouldn't sign off initially because the security scanners weren't operational because of lack of power. Finally they authorized manual scans. This is an emergency, the first priority should have been getting these people to safety as quick as possible, not worrying about security scanners. Yes I will say it part of the blame rests with Bush! When it was obvious that a major city was destroyed on Tuesday when the levies, broke, he should have been on Air Force One back to Washington, He should have ordered Congress back in Emergency session, to authorize what ever funding would be neccessary, and he should have ordered Aid and called in the troops , blackhawks, and transport aircraft immediately. We got aid to Thailand within 24 hours of the Tsunami, why did it take 4 days in our own back yard? With the exception of the Coast Guard, which by all accounts, seems to have done a spectacular job, was the only real federal rescue pressence prior to Thursday night when the first Military Backhawks showed up. That is inexcusable. Also with Bush continuing his Vacation and speaking tour during this emergency, gives the impression he's not in control. He did the same thing after the second trade center tower, was hit. Instead of immediately taking command of the situation, he continued reading children stories, for another 7 minutes. In those seven minutes, he could have ordered NORAD to get fighter plane cover up in every major city including Washington. It may have made a difference in the Pentagon attack, but I guess we'll never know!! Things like this at best makes him look ineffective in immediate times of crisis, and worse can cause lives, when every minute counts.Tom

[mgh 89]

The Times newspaper reports that the US Government asked the UK Government for army ration packs. Ministry of Defence staff worked through last weekend organising it, and began airlifting them to the USA last Monday and have delivered 400,000 packs.On arrival the USA the packs were promptly impounded by the US Department of Agriculture under regulations governing import of foodstuffs from the EU. After negotiations with the British Government, they were eventually released 5 days after they first arrived. It is reported that delivery of a further 100,000 packs has been suspended!

[mgh 89]

The link is:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,23...1773364,00.html

[Guest beana51]

"NEWS BREAK" A 6 mile long Asteroid will impact the planet earth in 5days, 13hrs, 15min, and 12 sec. !! Homeland security has taken action.The director suggests we all lower our trousers,and kiss our butts good by! But before we go, the question remains"WHO DO WE BLAME??"Some body was not on the job,except the messenger of course.An old wise man once said, "WHEN DEATH SMILES AT YOU ALL YOU CAN DO IS SMILE BACK" VINPS the news report is fictitious,but of course!...then again?

[n4gix 4,947]

It's know that it's easy to arm-chair quarterback, but quite frankly I don't think the question is all that difficult to answer.Who is the "Capitan of the Good Ship City of New Orleans?" Who are the "First Mate" and "Second Officer?"Who were among the first to "abandon ship," leaving the "passengers" behind?The very people who had the responsibility to ensure the safe and orderly evacuation of the city were among the first to abandon their duties...If there's any justice whatsover, ultimately these individuals will face criminal charges of "depraved indifference" and perhaps even "criminally negligent homicide."