Bugs in VR in the newest version.....

[Quijote 4]

Hello, I am using the latest update of the GTN750. I use it in all my planes as a floating window sitting on the copilot seat. I fly always in VR with the Rift-S and the floating panel is big enough that I can see it well and manipulate it with the Touch Controllers or the mouse. Another plugin that is active is Pilot2ATC that creates the original flight plan and then scolds me if I don't follow it correctly I enter the flight plan from Pilot2ATC manually into the GTN750 when I am in the cockpit. I also use AviTAB for nav charts and a moving map.
So a few days ago, I would be in the beginning of a flight and all of a sudden the GTN750 would lock up. It wouldn't respond to any click from the controllers or the mouse. But it remained active and auto-zoomed when it approached a waypoint. But I couldn't control it at all. At first, I went to the menu and closed the GTN completely. Then I launched a whole new version of it and that would work after I re-entered the flight plan.
I found a better way to work around the problem, I exited VR and with the normal screen I was able to select a Popup Window. I clicked on that a few times with the mouse to be sure that it was working - which it was. I was back to normal. So then I went back into VR and the popup window disappeared, but when I was in VR there it was floating in front of me, waiting to be placed on the copilot seat. It then worked fine and I didn't have to reload the flight plan.

But I seem to have found a curious connection that seems to be related. This is a whole new bug. When I am making a flight plan, I select a STAR and it inserts correctly into the plan. But when I go to select an Approach, instead of inserting BEFORE the destination airport, it inserts AFTER - so that the plane goes to the airport and then goes to the approach. I discovered that I could just delete the airport name in the plan and then the preview would show the correct line from the end of the STAR to the beginning of the Approach and down to the runway. So it didn't bother me that the airport name was no longer in the plan as long as I got to the right runway.

BUT, I noticed that, in the cases where I deleted the destination airport, I had the above problem with the GTN freezing in flight.

But I just made a flight and when I selected the approach, the destination airport name disappeared and the STAR connected to the Approach just like it should. When I made that flight, the GTN didn't freeze up. So sometimes the approach connects correctly and sometimes it doesn't.

This is one of those mystery bugs that involves a lot of plugins, but since I can reproduce it, I report it.

[RXP 2,336]

Hi,

There might be different things involved here.

First, the 'flight plan behaviour' you're describing sounds normal and is part of the changes introduced with GTN v6.50:

• Vertical navigation (VNAV) capability when flying STARS and the initial stages of instrument approaches
• Along-track offsets in flight plan segments
• Destination airport remains in the flight plan when an approach is loaded (but the destination airport is removed when the approach is activated)
• A shortcut to the airport info page added to all procedure headers
• Load the approach NAV frequency from the approach header in the flight plan
• QWERTY keyboard option

As for the VR window no longer intercepting controller events, this might be a bug introduced in the latest X-Plane current 'beta', or a conflict with Avitab of some sort? (we've been in contact with the developper and have exchanged our hacks about how to intercept the VR controller - which is not something supported by the SDK natively)

What X-Plane version are you running?

[Quijote 4]

Hello Jean-Luc,

I have the newest Xplane, Oculus software, nVidia software......and RXP software....

I'm going to do a flight right now to see if I neglected to activate the approach - but then it wouldn't show up in the flight plan if I had not done that, right?

I am pretty well dependent on the GTN750 in VR because all the other GPSs are way to hard to manipulate. At least, if I am unwilling to pause the sim......

OK, I just planned a flight from KSNA to L45 (Bakersfield Muni). L45 doesn't have a STAR but I selected an RNAV approach to Rwy 34. I activated the approach and the airport remained in the list L45 - BEFORE the approach. I double checked and Activate Approach was grayed out. I didn't delete the L45, so I will now fly the plan and see if I get a freeze.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Quijote

[Quijote 4]

I flew the plan with the airport L45 in front of the approach, but when I was 30 miles from the airport, I deleted L45 and the plane arrived correctly at the runway. There were no freezes.

So I returned to KSNA. It has a STAR which I loaded. Then I loaded the approach and this time, the airport name was not in front of the approach. So apparently it works some of the time - and doesn't work some of the time. I will keep testing and report back.

[RXP 2,336]

Thank you for the additional tests.

This may be a bug in their v6.62 update too, but if you can find a 100% repro situation (preferably a short flight plan) we'll be able to trace what is happening internally.

[Quijote 4]

OK, I just loaded a flight in the TBM900 from KSFO to KIYK (Inyokern, California). Sorry it wasn't shorter. KIYK has no STAR, so I loaded an RNAV approach to Rwy 02. Even after activating the approach, KIYK was ahead of the approach in the plan. See photo of plan preview. Sorry, importing a photo is too much hassle. Take my word for it. So I am going to delete the KIYK in the plan and then try to fly. Back soon......

Edited August 2, 2019 by Quijote

[Quijote 4]

So I flew the above flight and nothing froze up. I got to the runway at KIYK. The glide slope on the RNAV approach didn't work, but it could have been because I was too high. I have not had a good glide slope approach for a while now.

I then flew from KIYD to KSAN (San Diego) and selected a STAR and an approach. When I activated the approach, the airport name was not in the plan - Rwy 27 was there. The plane followed the plan and didn't freeze up. There is no glide slope for Rwy 27 at KSAN due to high buildings, so no test.....

Other than the KIYK name in the plan BEFORE the approach, everything worked fine. I will quit bothering you until I have a reproducible error.

[Quijote 4]

OK, I have had no more freezes, but the problem with approaches to airports without a STAR continues. This one can be reproduced, I think. I go from EGGP (Liverpool) to EGNV (Durham-Tees) leaving from EGGP with one of the POL5V SID and then to EGNV. There are no STARs at EGNV, so I selected the ILS approach to Rwy 05 with the D288O transition. The GTN put EGNV BEFORE the approach as in photo 1. So I manually deleted EGNV setting up a clean approach as in photo 2. The plane followed the plan in photo 2 and the RNAV approach worked. So the only problem is the airport coming before the approach in airports without a STAR.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9c41tbnptme6zh/DA62 - 2019-08-03 11.43.40.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rirkv39lsuhld89/DA62 - 2019-08-03 11.44.22.jpg?dl=0

There are the 2 photos. I hope you will be able to see them.......

 

 

[RXP 2,336]

Hi and thank you for the extensive reports and screenshots, these help.

Looking at the GTN Pilot's Guide it all seems correct to me:

With GTN v6.50 and later:

If you build your flight plan with the destination airport at the end and then load an approach procedure, you will navigate all the way to the destination airport before joining the procedure. Be sure when LOADING and not ACTIVATING an approach procedure that the route to be flown is correct.

 

[Quijote 4]

But I activated the approach to EGNV before taking the screenshot that shows the airport before the approach. I think you can demo this without having to fly.... 

[RXP 2,336]

On 8/3/2019 at 7:10 AM, Quijote said:

I selected the ILS approach to Rwy 05 with the D288O transition. The GTN put EGNV BEFORE the approach as in photo 1.

is consistent with:

On 8/3/2019 at 11:10 AM, RXP said:

and then load an approach procedure, you will navigate all the way to the destination airport before joining the procedure.

but you're saying:

On 8/3/2019 at 6:52 PM, Quijote said:

But I activated the approach to EGNV before taking the screenshot that shows the airport before the approach.

I fail to follow?!?!

[Quijote 4]

If I make a flight plan with an approach, I want the plane to fly to the first waypoint on the approach, not the airport. I can get that by deleting the airport in the plan after the approach is loaded. Then the plane does what I want. Now that I know that the approach will not be put in front of the airport, I can delete and all is well. What matters is not getting a surprise when I am very busy arriving.

[RXP 2,336]

3 hours ago, Quijote said:

I can delete and all is well. What matters is not getting a surprise when I am very busy arriving.

And this seems to just be how Garmin has been (re)designing the flight planning interface since GTN 6.50.