A scary New World

[Guest Shalomar]

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!One thing I remember from school is the similarity in action between individuals/groups who are too far to the left, and right.I do not own a gun and do not plan to buy one, but I am totally against the stand taken by some that the second ammendment does not convey the personal right to own one. Though it is against my personal ethics, abortion is the law of the land. Yet, due to the polarization and party lines, politicians with me are few and far between.I don't know why the government wants to look at my bank records and what books I have checked out of the library, but if they want to that's cool with me.But when it comes to deprivation of liberty, let there be evidence presented and due process preserved. The protections that would be necessarry to safeguard jurors, judges, police and witnesses are already desperately needed, because they are increasingly targeted by common criminals for doing their duty.The German officer who consistently got the most valuable intelligence from American soldiers treated them the best. Japanese fought like heck because they were sure they would be tortured and killed, but usually were helpful with intelligence once captured. One went so far as to guide a bombing raid against his own squadron.There were solid reasons for the Geneva accords, and if the Isrealis with their dire strategic position have backed off on the use of torture, we definitely seem to be going in the wrong direction.There is no way to know when this war is over, it's never been declared. So whatever rights are relinquished for the duration, ain't gonna be back for a while.Best Regards, Donny

[Guest beana51]

This conversation about a "scary new world," has become a platform for our individual fears and concerns. All are valid. If we as a nation are becoming paranoid about the potential dangers to our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness so be it. When a society's toys become potential objects of destruction, I worry. When a pack of butts, a six pack, and maybe the preferred joint is denied to an individual, some worry. Its obvious some of our views have their roots in a different time. No less stressful, no less dangerous, but with a better sense of patriotism, humility, and caring; and most importantly individual freedom. In our story of growth, from the Puritans, to Dodge City some years ago, rules had to be made and enforced for the public's safety and freedom. Women's rights to vote, civil rights, equal opportunity and a host of others. Some are totally not representative of our individual views, abortion, sanctioned flag burning, drivers licenses, welfare, income tax, the draft and a host of government regulations and requirments...Politically, there's not much choice. Although the Republicans favor less government, and the Democrats favor more government. The real question is what can anyone do in an effective way? #### and moaning won't cut it. What type of an America are we looking for? Was Manifest Destiny the way to go? How about the Monroe Doctrine? Should we shut down immigration? Or should we open the borders further? Lets abolish speed limits, after all I like to drive very fast. Maybe with a joint and a brew in hand. Trouble is I may hit some kid or an old lady. My kid got hit, for the sake of the discussion. I wanna know why is this guy allowed to drive stoned out of his mind. Is checking for the cause of this unconditional? Does banning booze and drugs for the public's safety unconstitutional?Those two Pilots who got busted recently for attempting to fly an airliner drunk have rights?. Why should they not be tested for drugs?Like, it's a free country man! Is peddling crack in front of a school a freedom we should protect? The ACLU may agree.How about checking hosiptial employee for AIDs?I wonder if that would be unconstional?These and all questions should be addressed too. One point of view is as an individual, the other for the public's welfare. Often they conflict. While this discussion really doesn't belong on a forum like this, it does bring up some interesting questions which relate to Flight Sim. That is, the curtailment, or banning of it for security reasons. I don't think so, for in an unpoliced society, you can go to the best commercial simulators available for cash,why mess around with a toy. There you can request to fly ,and point at only, and not practice TA@Ls. It's a free country is it not? And you should have that right,I think?. I was already an ol' guy during the late 60's and disastrous 70's. I was at Woodstock,in Bethel NY. Lived near there. I was shocked to no end seeing kids smoking pot,getting stoned, having sex all over the place for that week, the law powerless, all rules of decency gone,a total meltdown of every thing I thought that was correct, decent behavior. True anarchy."The age of Aquarius was ushered in." It's ironic that the majority of the lead entertainers died, OD'ing on drugs. What a message for uncontrolled addiction to drugs,and no controls, like testing...And in an effort to protect our kids, we got "Paranoid" I guess. We, as a community pushed for the most stringent controls that could be legislated and enforced. We even spread chicken manure on that site to discourage any further activity, to no avail. Currantly a "HIPPIE PARK" is being put up there, after all these years. You should see the old pot heads gather there, with their children, teary eyed and contemplating the scene of the crime, for many kids were conceived there. Although grey pony tails don't look cool anymore and those screwed up tye-dyed shirts still look weird. But the aroma of pot still persists. A reflection on my part...To no avail however,the drug addiction in the USA is still out of control. The huge sums of money from it financing other vices. Funny when a crack dealer gets busted, the first thing he yells is ,"I GOT MY RIGHTS,ITS A FREE COUNTRY AN"T IT?!" Well I BL AA, BL AAA, Enough. Thanks for all your very interesting comments. In a country thats now probably equally divided on almost everything, this is surely indicative of that. I thank our Host for their tolerance. It's not found on other forums. Talk about a police state mentality, there are good examples out there. HAVE FUN, ENJOY WHAT WE GOT,ITS THE BEST THERE IS! KEEP SMILING!And MOST IMPOTANTLY, LETS NOT TAKE OURSELVES TO SEROUS! VIN :-wave

[Guest]

Completely wrong, though the politically correct version.The Roman Empire was effectively never an empire at all, even though the Imperator had almost absolute powers.It was a republic at all times. The emperor was the leader of the senate and commander in chief of the armed forces, and could in theory at least be removed from power at any time (as many were in coups and other less than regular ways).They retained their power not through any statute which granted them that power without limits but rather through skillfull political maneouvering which placed people with ties to them (family, people in their debt, etc.) in high places.In the end what destroyed the empire was strategic overstretch as the cost of maintaining the military apparatus needed to maintain order in the outlying provinces became too great for the nation to bear.Regional commanders became ever more independent until they could operate without any control from Rome and were effectively independent states.These were then relatively easily overrun by barbarian hordes which eventually were able to sack Rome.By that time the Eastern provinces had split off and formed the Eastern Roman Empire with the capital at Constantinople.This deterioration was sped up by a general lack of talented battlefield commanders in that period, brought about no doubt by the regular purges of the officer corps brought about by politicians (and especially emperors of Nero's line) being mortally afraid of any talented underlings who might have ambitions to overthrow them and take the throne.This is in fact no different from what happened in the USSR under Stalin and several times afterwards.Had Stalin's purges been complete the Germans would have easily crushed the Red Army before they could regroup and mount a successful defense at Stalingrad and Moscow.

[Guest]

Navdata is NOT pulled for security reasons but because the cost of paying for publication rights was getting too expensive for the very limited use of the data.In fact I would support a ban on open publication of such data as there is indeed no need-to-know for people outside the aviation industry if such a ban had any effect at all (which it doesn't as the information is pretty useless to people with ill intent and if they would want it they could get it through other means anyway).What I am sick of are the people who put their own hobbies and passtimes before the lifes and safety of others.That's not just idiots who try to sneak past security at airports to walk up to aircraft to take pictures, but also the kids who park their cars in front of my home on a summer evening and turn up the stereo to a volume high enough that it's impossible to speak to someone and I go scampering for the earplugs (I used to live next to a bar, and that happened almost every night in summer).That's not about "security", it's about decency.

[Guest Shalomar]

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!I don't have much more to add, it is reassuring that others share my concerns without subscribing to the many conspiracy theories abounding these days. I think one of the best offenses in the war on terror was fought in Indonesia after the tsunami, and I am grateful for the services of all who don't make policy, but carry it out. I totally agree too many americans on both sides are too quick to follow their party line than their common sense and conscience.The CIA has finally set up a special office to monitor newspapers and broadcasts that could be of interest, realising that just cuz somethoing isn't marked "top secret" it isn't nessesarily useless.If recruitment is attempted amongst American citizens, it will most likely be thru the Internet. Electronic communications are surprisingly searchable and permanent, and law enforcement could troll for terrorists as they do for child molesters/pornagraphers.Reggie, speaking of a whole class of citizens being treated differently under the law, have you looked over involuntary commitment laws in Pennsylvania and New York? It's a civil proceeding, so no miranda, hearsay is admissable, any staff member can write any old thing down on a chart and be quoted by someone else with no threat of perjury. Your jury, should you request one, can consist of staff members from the hospital. Even though these proceedings are used by abusive parners as a control method, or used to increase chances of getting custody in a divorce, not even the ACLU wants to touch it. Any responsible person can initiate them, recently there was a story about a man who got even with his girlfriend for breaking up with him by saying she was suicidal and committing her. I don't see any dif in the Constitution between being deprived of your liberty in a hospital or prison.Gavin, yep. Ironic. I didn't know Saddam's regime was that democratic, thanx for pointing out his voter turnout!Beana, haven't tried the Goose yet, but I like the Widgeon- and amphibs in general. I don't think I'll be adding to my hangar or scenery till after Februaury.Phil, you're not just saying "it won't happen to me", but considering that it could, and continuing with the same opinion. That's a way of putting others before yourself. Here's hoping that if mistakes are made, they will be honest ones.I learned a few new things about the Roman Empire, always good to learn.I don't have a printer for charts, I get mine from the local FBO. So far no raised eyebrows and I still have to take out my own trash. (Was hopin' the FBI would start doin' it for me:-) )Best regards, and out, Donny

[Guest beana51]

Ya gotta a way with words! Nice! Regards VIN :-cool

[Guest Charlie]

Well, Vin, I

[Guest beana51]

Thank you Charlie for your very brief two comments. I sometimes like playing some sort of "Devils Advocate" a virtual Pot Stirrer"When things get hot,I stay cool,and when things are cool?, well its time to get heated up.I appreciate your words.I could not share in agreement with all of what you say.But will always listen intently,for your thoughts are clear.My reference to Woodstock was purely reminiscing on my part. Who knows,? were I the same age as those kids ,why I may have been rolling around in the mud too.The passion for me today,except for things aviation is what will tomorrow be like for my numerous children,and every growing number of grand children.I ,in my youth we felt always strong,no-fear, I'll fix it follow me,all that bravado of the concerned husband,parent,citizen.And when things seem out of your control, a period of deep concern sets in.However ,each generation addresses its times. Good men ,follow good men, the Country moves on.Sometimes a bit "Roughed up"but never down and out.We slumbered in my life many times,like WW2,Korea,Vietnam,and all the little things in between.It never ends,as witnessed by those kids over there now.But once aroused ,watch out,we could become your worst nightmare.SO! I glide Thur the uncertainty the future,and also the belief in our country to be there when we need them."Them", being all our fellow Americans.I live here in Fla.,not my choice.Last year we endured four Hurricanes.Today were are looking at some more coming our way.Some things are truly beyond our control.As witnessed by those unfortunate people in the Gulf coast area.I like history,and when the great city of Roman Pompeii was buried by that volcano, there was no relief effort then.Even in a society like they were. It stayed buried for 2000yrs.Only in America,do we take humane action not only for ourselves ,but the world included.And paradoxly ,we have also leveled some cities in our times.That should not give comfort to our enemies.BLaaaed! enough,gotta go flying,and watch the game ,both at the same time! Thats not easy!! Stay Well Regards VIN

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

If they can't be held under the same terms as POWs because 'we are not at war' then you can't say 'in time of war.'

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

Raising questions about why our liberties are selectively taken away is not badmouthing.The denial of due process of law is nothing short of scary under ANY circumstances. Armed robbers caught on camera get more rights than anyone even suspected of having anything to do with being a terrorist...something's not right there.

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

Whaaaaa?

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

Yes. He was being sarcastic, but it's true. The right to vote does not equal democracy - as his figures show.The big point is this. We were founded (by the same whiny liberals who will fix this country by - remember the Boston tea party? Taxation without representation? Come on, this country was FOUNDED on our RIGHT to whine about superfluous nonsense!) on the idea of being free, with the understanding that you accept the risks that come with it.It's time we remembered that. "A little bit of freedom for a lot of safety" is an asinine policy that can only go in one direction...gradually, but surely.

[Guest Shalomar]

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!The final paralels with Vietnam are painfully apparent now in Iraq. The question is what is the mistake, going or leaving? We are Over There. We Stood with Germany. Will we Stand with Iraq?No, I am not anti-American, not anti-Bush. Anti-stupid.Britain, France, and Spain are among countries making not so discrete inquiries about "secret" camps for terror suspects in THE USA. I say the perfect place is in a mental ward in PA, NY or a stste where commitment is an unconstiututional civil proceeding. After, all, they already get away with deprivation of liberty for them with no Miranda, no right to face your accuser cuz hearsay is admissable... In my EXPERIENCE it is usually a rubber stamp.When I get an answer as to whether the first one was removed, I will attempt to retype "SHALOMAR: My Worst Nightmare Yet."Still best Regards, Donny:-wave

[Guest beana51]

Hi Donny,glad to hear from you again.Hope you are well. So ya dug up this Ole post. Now that I review it ,especially my remarks,and only mine,I have to ask my self what did I accomplish?The answer of course,nothing! "Bloviating",as Bill O' Reilly says,should be left to him.Me,and maby others,who rant and rave are not so entertaining any more. There is a tranquility in contemplating things more peaceful.If we could effect change,well then we could accomplish something.Like if a boulder can be moved an inch,then it could be moved a foot,then probably a mile.But if the thing don't budge at all,then its beyond our control,and best left alone.And like these worldly arguments,they should be left alone,for they will not move,nor can we change them. Those who drink the"Kool-Aid"of life will always be hopelessly intoxicated,and beyond hope.Their minds swimming in thoughts of intrigue,conspiracy,doubt,and uncertainty.In the end only to drown,unfulfilled,and unhappy. Personally, I feel the need of the luxury of self content.I appreciate myself,I can look in the mirror and not blink. Now,I let others fight the great verbal battles of the right or wrong of national and worldly issues.I now know the jokes on us,as it always has been.Its always the little guys who are the great hero's,often time, dead hero's.They need no eulogy from any one. I remember a line in the "Great Waldo Pepper movie".The then,aging broken down WW1 German Ace,reminiscing his youth and fame,,then remarking ,"Things were so much clearer from up there". So ,I to, now would like to chose the "altitude",to view things.Its really clearer from above. For when your down in the foxholes,it can be ####,and your direction can not be clear in the haze of confusion.Often hasty emotions are fatal. So on the Eve of the "Christmas" to come,lets hope all things for all people get better. There have been many "Christmases",in 2000yrs, in times of great adversity,and it is still with us.Take heart in this! The Best To You Donny! VIN

[Guest]

The parallels are indeed painfully apparent.Again the press is aiding the enemies of the USA by portraying the conflict as a series of back to back failures for US forces when in fact that's not the case at all.You say you're anti-stupid but your posts are rather stupid themselves, or more likely gullible.Even IF going in had been the wrong decision (it wasn't), leaving with the job half done would be even worse. It would leave a nation at the mercy of the enemies of not just the USA, but itself and the entire free world.In fact, it would do the same as abandoning South Vietnam to the mercy of the North Vietnamese communists did, which is effectively destroy that nation.Had the US stuck around in Vietnam, and had the White House not tried to micromanage that conflict to the point where they decided which rice paddy to bomb 3 weeks from now and with how many of which type of weapons, that war would have been won. This time the situation is quite different. The people in theatre can decide on their own what to do, but somewhat unlike Vietnam they have a shortage of equipment because of the extreme drawbacks the US armed forces have suffered over the last decade, leaving them sometimes having to work with hardware that is at best marginally suitable to the task at hand, a situation most people in the US military have never been accustomed to. They are overcoming those challenges but it takes time and sometimes blood.As it is most of Iraq is safer now than many a city in the USA. Why is it that a single person killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad or Mosul is worldwide news yet the dozens of people killed or maimed in gang violence every day in a city like LA or New York hardly even make the local headlines anymore?