Saitek Yoke Lubrication

[HGNK 20]

Haven't had the time to properly read the replies to this post but your problem 9Gturn, is not the bearing, its the ridiculously stiff and over hard central coil spring - the spring you can see at the base of the stick when you tilt it. I have bought about 6 Saitek (now Madcatz) sticks over the years and they all had the same problem.

I had to sort the problem recently because I wanted to fly helicopters on fsx and the stick 'stiffness' and 'sticking' made it impossible for smooth control. Like you I thought that lubrication would solve the sticking problem. Their are a few youtube videos online but the solution is really easy and simple. Buy a 50c pack of plastic cable ties. Clamp the central  coil spring with a pair of pliers and cable tie one side of the spring, forcing the coil together, thereby weakening it. The tighter you clamp the coil, the weaker it will be. You can experiment with different configurations but I found by only clamping the middle three turns of the spring (not the top and bottom which would be difficult to access) which are easy to see and access, I get a stick which is about 50% less stiff and never sticks ever. Pretty smooth control now which requires very little force to move around. This way I still get some self-centering. Having a stick with no spring at all (no self centering) would probably be hard to use, but I have heard of someone doing just that.

I hardly use standard joysticks anymore because of their price and stupidly stiff self centering spring stiffnesses which 'locks' the stick so hard you need to wrench it sideways...been there done that sick trick too many times! Its horrible. In a real plane the pilot would refuse to fly it and send it back to engineering!

Now I prefer the excellent and far cheaper PDP Xbox and Win10 controllers (USB) which have twin sticks (like radio control controllers) and paddles at the back for rudder control. This controller gives full control with 2 hands. My set up is throttle on the left stick and aleron and elevator (right stick), flaps and brakes via its buttons. Never need to touch a keyboard now when flying. Its a great product and the paddles are better than rudder pedals for me. Highly recommend.

 

FYI - before I found the solution on youtube, I had a conversation with a Professional Joystick service engineer - a colleague of mine who supplied joysticks to the industrial market. He didn't know the source of my problem but told me that the reason his joysticks never 'stick' and are smooth as butter is because they cost $1000 AUD + and hundreds of dollars to service. At the time I thought that it was all about money, but eventually discovered the cheap solution to my cheap chinese joystick.

[HGNK 20]

Note - my set up is I have clamped the central coil with one cable tie, on only one side to get the smoothness I want. What you are doing is effectively are weakening the coil which means there is a lower self-centering force, which means less force input by you to push or pull the stick off centre. This over-stiff coil is basically clamping, forcing the stick hard down onto the bearing base which is the reason it feels hard to move and 'sticking' or 'locking'. I wish I had known this solution 20 years ago - would have solved alot of joystick frustration.

At one time, when I was convinced my joystick was too cheap in manufacture (they are never that cheap to buy as you know!), I went into the store to complain about my latest stiff joystick purchase and had a look at some super-expensive sticks on display, which I was told would solve my problems. "You get what you pay for" sales line. After handling some of their sticks 2-5x the price of mine, I was not convinced - they felt just as cheap as the ones I had, just with some extra gizmos thrown in, that I don't need. Didn't trust them and now I know I was wise to stick with a cheap stick. I doubt the good ones are as good as they claim. I like cheap, and now I have cheap and cheerful - perfect control when I fly on a sim with my cheap 50c cable ties. Best of luck. My present stick is 5 years old and no problem. Though I have found over the years that the Saitek/Madcatz sticks do tend to fail with the rudder-z twist turn of the stick. Only my most recent sticks still have  working twist stick rudder. I don't like the twisting the stick rudder anyway so it doesn't bother me. Trying to land in a crosswind twisting a joystick does not do it for me. Its a ham fisted solution. In the past I prefer to use the keyboard for rudder control but now with the PDP Win10 twin stick controller I don't need the keyboard.

[HGNK 20]

Sorry - just noticed your post mentioned 'yoke'. I thought it was a joystick. I have never had a yoke controller, only joysticks. Can't help, but your 'lubrication-sticking' problem sounds suspiciously like mine was. I would investigate the self centering spring as the culprit before I would blame the bearing or lubrication. Lubricating plastics is probably tricky, but I wouldn't know - you would need the correct lubricant - would discuss with someone who knows. A plastic safe  lubricant is a good idea.

[ntydk 13]

Hello 9GTurn,

Sorry to get back to you late. I was so tied up with my Microwave Oven repair and my friend's Toyota truck repair projects for the past two weeks.

The major reasons in not sharing the 3D prints in Thingiverse are:

(1) Mainly due to the requirement of above average soldering skill and generating tight tolerance of the HE sensor housing and moving parts are involved.

Also each 3D printer of different brand will be required to spend time in calibration to reach the same working result. This process will discourage a lot of people with less patience and might consider this project is not work as its claimed. I know because I spent many hours in fine tuning the design after many failed 3D prints and constantly performing printer calibration. The true success rate is hard to keep by copying other people works in some cases.

(2) I decide to keep the production of all parts in house and personally testing each unit before mailing out to users. In the meanwhile I will perfect my design with the positive or negative feedback from the users. 

(3) All the electronic parts, material and supplies that I am using are ordered in a small volume with fixed shipping charges and without discount. Some unused left over parts sitting in my drawer will be useful to others .  That means I can produce one or two extra kits for others and reimburse the actual cost of the parts that I do not used (parts +tax + shipping) with a win win solution.

Speaking about how it works, it is based on the simple principle of magnetism generated from moving magnets which control the flow of the current and create difference voltage potential inside the hall effect sensor IC.  The controller board in the yoke will read these varying voltage signals  in determine the corresponding position of the yoke during flight.

The tooth parts ( I assumed you are referring those gears connect to the OEM potentiometers and the HE sensors in my case) are the moving linkage to rotate the magnets inside the housing in which creating the magnetic flux from weak to strong and vise versa impacting the HE sensor as the gears turn according to the pitching or rolling movement of the yoke.

In fact there are a lot of good hall effect sensor information published on internet. I learnt my HE facts from many others good people working on HE joystick projects by googling since 2010.

I am grateful and thankful for this opportunity to learn and design the HE sensor to improve my Flight Sim Yoke performance and hope to share with others in my spare time.

Hope these answer your questions in your post.

Thanks for your interest.

Norman

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by ntydk

[9GTurn 6]

Cracking stuff Norman and well designed as I too worked out how the HE sensor worked after a bit of google and youtube but admired how you got the whole package to be so neat and fit in the existing space and working so well. Extends the life of the yoke imessurably.

So far I've carried out the rubber band mod on my saitek yoke, lightly lubed the yoke with silicone grease and preordered the honeycomb yoke! Where I shall await your video on how to upgrade that to Hall!!

[ntydk 13]

Hello 9GTurn,

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment.

Love to hear from you about how you feel about the Honeycomb yoke later.

 

[SolRayz 392]

On 8/10/2019 at 1:48 AM, MarkDH said:

You could do this:

 

Oh my...love the youtube channel, but this is an overly complicated and technical mod for a yoke that barely deserves it. But more power to you if you decide to go this route. 

[himmelhorse 1,276]

SolRayz,

I appreciate your comments and, IF the Honeycomb is USD200-250, and, it is as good as Austin says, then you may be in the "well OK"  bracket if you are due to replace, but, if you have just invested in the Saitek/Logitech yoke, it becomes a whole new story for the budget-minded simmers.

My Yoke is now about five years old and probably way overdue for a replacement but I am going to go the route of the Hall effect sensors (Normans ... in fact, I have already ordered them) Rubber bands for the Pitch resistance effect, and, Marks mod which you have referred to. However, removing the horns of the yoke and extending the yoke rod I really need to be convinced about. I think it may well be a case of "Suck it and See"  However, I feel that those three mods can give you a yoke that is more than serviceable, and, is likely to last another five years at a cost of probably USD34-40.  For me .... hard to pass up.

I do not know whether the pitch mechanism is available from Logitech as a spare part and, as far as I can see, that is the specific part that gives you the 90 degrees of deflection each way. That too, "should" be a relatively simple mod for maybe later on.

See also my remarks regarding the "resolution" that Austin is talking about.

If these mods work out as I would like them too, The modded yoke may well outlast my flying days and that, in itself, would make me a happy little vegemite.

Cheers to you all

Tony