ual763

Important Support for “Other” Aircraft Types

Recommended Posts

I would love to see the new MSFS support certain fringe aircraft types.  In particular, I want support for the following (My personal aircraft recommendations for each have a * 😞

1.) Seaplanes

  • Realistic water/waves
  • Realistic handling in water
  • * DeHavilland Beaver *

2.) Gliders

  • Gliders were one of the things I loved about FSX.  Would love to see these supported again,
  • Realistic thermals/Mountain wave turbulence/mountain winds/etc.
  • * Grob G-102 *

3.) Tailwheel Aircraft

  • Please, please ensure that taildraggers act like, well, taildraggers!
  • * Boeing Stearman PT-17 & Piper J3 Cub *

4.) Lighter than Air

  • A hot air balloon would be awesome to have in my opinion.  Especially considering we will have great scenery out of the box.  Would be nice to just go up and float across Albuquerque into the sunset.
  • If missions are included again, maybe a mission where you take part in the Albuquerque International Balloon Festival could be included. It would be cool to see a few hundred balloons in the sim and fly amongst them in you own balloon.
  • * Cameron Non-Partitioned basket Hot Air Balloon *

5.) Airships

  • One of the things that has never been done before for any flight simulator to my knowledge, is support for airships.  How cool would it be to have the ability to fly the Goodyear Blimp (or any other number of Zeppelins) across the LA basin?!  
  • This would also open opportunities for addon developers to create addon airships such as the Hindenburg which we could fly through the skies.  
  • * Goodyear GZ-22 Spirit of Akron *

6.) Powered Parachutes

  • These would be another fun aircraft to just get out and explore high detail areas in the sim.  

7.) Hang Gliders

  • This would also be a fun way to enjoy the scenery in the new sim.  

8.) Plain (non-powered) parachutes. 

  • While not required, it would be really cool to have the ability to jump from an AI Twin Otter or Cessna Caravan from any point in the World and simulate a skydive with chute deployment down to the ground.  The snippet above Barcelona show a few weeks ago gave me this idea.

9.) Helicopters 

  • Almost forgot about the helo guys, but hopefully these are faithfully included.
  • Physics should be a lot better than FSX/P3D were for helos
  • * Bell 47 *

Some of the above suggestions (airship, balloon, hang glider) would warrant the ability to chose the departure location at any point on a map, instead of always at an airport.

Anyways, I think that if MSFS is going to be a true Flight Simulator, it should feature (or at least have the ability to) all different forms of manned flight.  I’m not saying that these should all be included in the default aircraft (although it would be SUPER cool).  As long as addon developers will have the ability to accurately reproduce these fringe types of aircraft, and model the physics appropriately, I will be one happy camper.  With old simulators, scenery never really looked great down low.  There was really no need, or desire, to float in a balloon above the default FSX terrain (or even most addon sceneries).  Now, in 2019, if MSFS has gorgeous terrain by default, I and many others will actually want to admire it down low and slow in a balloon or PPG.

Best Regards,

Rob

Edited by ual763
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

P.S. - to sort of follow up on this, sound is a MAJOR factor that would influence the feeling of actually flying many of these fringe aircraft.

For example, in a hot air balloon, you should be able to hear the subtle changes in wind speed.  If flying low over a major roadway, or city, you should be able to hear the noise pollution from the vehicles/trains driving below (maybe a few distant car/train horns for good measure).  The occasional emergency vehicle and siren would be cool as well.  Or if floating low over the ocean or fast flowing rivers, one could hear the seagulls chirping, the waves breaking on the shore, and/or river currents rushing through rocks.  Also, another cool sound effect would be a storm/tornado siren when the weather gets really bad.  These should be volumetric so that they gradually get weaker as you climb upwards.  

And maybe large sports stadiums (if included) could emit crowd cheers, Queen ‘We Are The Champions’/‘We Will Rock You’, and announcer’s voices, between certain hours (e.g. 7:30 - 10pm local)

Edited by ual763
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MartinH said:

Shouldn't this be in 'What We Want'?

It would get buried rather quickly.  I feel that these are extremely important aspects that should make it into the sim.  Besides, everything in these forum pages are at this point a “want” because we don’t even have the beta yet.  There is no support at this stage, only wants/speculation.

Edited by ual763
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW in my limited (<10 flights) experience in hot air balloons, what I was most struck by was the complete lack of wind and wind sounds.  I guess it makes sense if you think that you are usually moving exactly with the wind so there is no relative wind.  So silent and serene, until the flames shoot up 🙂. Maybe it’s different in more gusty conditions, but those might not be good for balloon flying (shrug)?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, royalwin said:

FWIW in my limited (<10 flights) experience in hot air balloons, what I was most struck by was the complete lack of wind and wind sounds.  I guess it makes sense if you think that you are usually moving exactly with the wind so there is no relative wind.  So silent and serene, until the flames shoot up 🙂. Maybe it’s different in more gusty conditions, but those might not be good for balloon flying (shrug)?

You’re not wrong there.  It’s been about 15 years since the last time I was in a balloon.  Now, gliders/hang gliders, you definitely hear all changes in wind.  But for balloons, the ground “environment” sounds are important to the experience.

Cheers,

Rob

Edited by ual763

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the above can be included if the underlying sim is a general purpose flight simulator, and with enough support for 3rd parties because some of these will only be very niche projects. 

For example, almost all of the above can be modeled in X-Plane, because the underlying simulation is based on blade element theory that takes the entire airframe into consideration. It also includes things like a "displaced weight" value, which is how you get a dirigible.

Other simulator designs that use lookup tables specifying performance can work too. It just has to be flexible enough, and open enough. I hope we'll see this in the new MSFS. Because dirigibles are cool.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

All of the above can be included if the underlying sim is a general purpose flight simulator, and with enough support for 3rd parties because some of these will only be very niche projects. 

For example, almost all of the above can be modeled in X-Plane, because the underlying simulation is based on blade element theory that takes the entire airframe into consideration. It also includes things like a "displaced weight" value, which is how you get a dirigible.

Other simulator designs that use lookup tables specifying performance can work too. It just has to be flexible enough, and open enough. I hope we'll see this in the new MSFS. Because dirigibles are cool.

I’ve wanted to fly one in Flight simulator for as long as I can remember.  I think FS9? had a few AI blimps IIRC, but never any that were flyable.

Edited by ual763

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ual763 said:

P.S. - to sort of follow up on this, sound is a MAJOR factor that would influence the feeling of actually flying many of these fringe aircraft.

For example, in a hot air balloon, you should be able to hear the subtle changes in wind speed.  If flying low over a major roadway, or city, you should be able to hear the noise pollution from the vehicles/trains driving below (maybe a few distant car/train horns for good measure).  The occasional emergency vehicle and siren would be cool as well.  Or if floating low over the ocean or fast flowing rivers, one could hear the seagulls chirping, the waves breaking on the shore, and/or river currents rushing through rocks.  Also, another cool sound effect would be a storm/tornado siren when the weather gets really bad.  These should be volumetric so that they gradually get weaker as you climb upwards.  

And maybe large sports stadiums (if included) could emit crowd cheers, Queen ‘We Are The Champions’/‘We Will Rock You’, and announcer’s voices, between certain hours (e.g. 7:30 - 10pm local)

It seems that to complete your wish list, maybe you should go for your PPL, as only that will make you happy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ual763 said:

I’ve wanted to fly one in Flight simulator for as long as I can remember.  I think FS9? had a few AI blimps IIRC, but never any that were flyable.

Plenty of Zeppelins and Blimps in FS9. Bill Lyons has an amazing one. 

Have a search in the various libraries. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Wobbie said:

It seems that to complete your wish list, maybe you should go for your PPL, as only that will make you happy. 

I have an ATP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Wobbie said:

Well done. That's not an easy thing to earn. 

Thanks, it was definitely worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wobbie said:

Plenty of Zeppelins and Blimps in FS9. Bill Lyons has an amazing one. 

Have a search in the various libraries. 

Weren’t these essentially just slow airplanes that looked like a blimp though?  We also had schoolbuses that could take off...  I don’t think any sim has modeled the physics of lighter than air aircraft yet.  At least not properly.  

Edited by ual763

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a look here: (www.flightsim.com)

FS2004 (ACOF) - FS2004 Other Aircraft
FS2004 Hindenburg D-LZ129
[ Download | View ]

 

Name: dlz129.zip
Size: 24,286,044 Date: 05-25-2006 Downloads: 5,297

 

dlz129.gif
FS2004 Hindenburg D-LZ129. Features full interior with photoreal radio room, passenger cabins, smoking room, kitchen, all decks, engine gantry and nacelle entry gantry, upper gondola map room. Virtual cockpit include all mouse over animated controls, custom lighting and gauges. 2D mini panel interface contains all system command icons and flight gauges. Dozens of animations include a walking waiter, individually controlled doors, night lights, field lights, animated port foreward engine, flush toilet, droplines, boarding ladder, exits, grand piano for music playback, passengers, ground crew, flags and other bits use conditional code to appear or disappear. All flight instructions and a complete history of the Zeppelin are available on your kneeboard along with direct links to the F1View module for viewing the interior and all the documents related to the use of the old style navigational aids are also included with how to change the included maps to other regions. By Chuck Jodry and the VJPL Flight Lab.

& here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.net/toh/   for Bill's LZ-127 -- simply superb!

(Near the bottom)

 
Edited by Wobbie
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/13/2019 at 12:35 PM, ual763 said:

I’ve wanted to fly one in Flight simulator for as long as I can remember.  I think FS9? had a few AI blimps IIRC, but never any that were flyable.

There were some flyable dirigibles and blimps for FS that you could download back in those days. 

I had a pretty good (for the time) Goodyear Blimp that I flew around a little.  I was never really into them that much though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen people flying hot air balloons at supersonic speeds past airport control towers in several YouTube videos, but I get the feeling that the flight models are not all that accurate :laugh:

Edited by Christopher Low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As they are with many aircraft. However, the 2 that I've posted work flawlessly.. Give then a try, especially Bill's. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn’t it a bit boring in an air balloon? At least in a sim? It’s boring enough in an airliner in the cruise, let alone something that is going much slower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, try Bill's LZ127, there is so much to do, linemen to pull the thing out of its hanger and a whole bunch load of missions/flights, water ballast dropping etc. Interesting flights and siteseeing. Definitely a worthy download. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Superdelphinus said:

Isn’t it a bit boring in an air balloon? At least in a sim? It’s boring enough in an airliner in the cruise, let alone something that is going much slower

It was boring, because the scenery in sims up until now has been terrible.  There was no feeling of actually flying.  If this is based off of real images, it will actually be something people want to do in the sim.  And even in the non-3d image areas, it appears we will have 3d grass, great 3d trees, and really the whole nine yards.  A lot of users will likely be able to see their own homes!  So this will really be revolutionary for low and slow flight.  Especially if the sounds of the environment and physics of the balloon are modeled correctly.  

Edited by ual763

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now