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Get Xp11 or wait for new MSFS

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8 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

It is a statement based on my experience with XP (and P3D) wasting money on addons when MSFS now has many features stock.

Nobody forced you to buy addons and "waste" money. It was your conscious choice to buy these products as you obviously must have enjoyed them since you kept buying more of them. I think if you're setting out believing you won't need any addons in the new sim then you're probably going to be left disappointed down the line. Microsoft also need to make money as well.

10 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

There have been several reviews from folk who have flown MSFS reported on the features. and to that end...

Why would you care what several chosen reviewers have said?. Until we actually see normal reviews from normal simmers in uncontrolled environments on their own hardware, the reviews are pretty much meaningless (at least to me). I want to see someone actually doing a proper flight on average hardware and internet before I decide X-Plane/P3D is obsolete.

19 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

That's how I know...based on simple facts and observations. My advice remains the same.

They're not facts, just your opinions and observations based on somebody else's words. You don't have the simulator so IMO you can't make that call. But we can agree to disagree here, and my advice would be to enjoy what you have now and don't let people tell you that everything you bought for your hobby is obsolete.

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1 hour ago, FlyBaby said:

It is a statement based on my experience with XP (and P3D) wasting money on addons when MSFS now has many features stock.

There have been several reviews from folk who have flown MSFS reported on the features. and to that end...

X-Plane doesn't even have clouds going to the horizon...you get a circle of clouds around your plane...and you need X_nvri to see clouds to the horizon, and that is still in the development.

A reviewer talked about seeing storm clouds in MSFS off to the horizon and flying to them...and we can clearly see that MSFS has clouds to the horizon in the vids.

That's how I know...based on simple facts and observations. My advice remains the same.

 

I see your point.  which is again pointless.

But based on your simple facts and observations you are missing some points that many aircrafts won't be available on launch day and i am sure even not within a years time after launch, so  what if the person has bought XP and wants to fly the available Airbus or a Boeing what he / she woud do ?  

I just bought XP11 now i want a great helicopter or should i wait for MFS ?  or should i just use XP default and wait 2 years more after MFS launch and wait for the heli ? no one even knows how it will be for the helicopter. 

3pd parties are here for a reason to fill in the void, do you think MFS would be the perfect one OOB ?  If the reviewer talked about storm clouds off to the horizon does it mean that the wx pattern generated is to perfection ? If its the perfect one then no 3pd will exist for MFS  or XP or p3d . 

Hey 3pd's we don't want or need your addons ever we are getting the perfect sim next year so go away.

 If was to take your advice i will be stuck using the default and a few nice freeware helis and never would be able to enjoy XP11 using the paid helis X-trident / dreamfoil which are top notch. 

end of discussion from my end. Over and Out.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Paraffin said:

 

Nobody makes a serious decision about a car purchase, or posts an informed opinion on an online forum about a car, without actually test-driving it. 

Have you ever heard of Tesla, and the many pre orders for the Model Y without people ever test driving it??? I am putting in my pre order as well...without ever test driving it...just waiting for the delivery...

By the way...Austin has a Tesla, you might want to ask him if he test drove one before he purchased.

Now come back and admit that your statement is wrong...

 

And it is a shame that so many people agreed with you, without considering the obvious...

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3 hours ago, tonywob said:

Nobody forced you to buy addons and "waste" money. It was your conscious choice to buy these products as you obviously must have enjoyed them since you kept buying more of them. I think if you're setting out believing you won't need any addons in the new sim then you're probably going to be left disappointed down the line. Microsoft also need to make money as well.

Why would you care what several chosen reviewers have said?. Until we actually see normal reviews from normal simmers in uncontrolled environments on their own hardware, the reviews are pretty much meaningless (at least to me). I want to see someone actually doing a proper flight on average hardware and internet before I decide X-Plane/P3D is obsolete.

They're not facts, just your opinions and observations based on somebody else's words. You don't have the simulator so IMO you can't make that call. But we can agree to disagree here, and my advice would be to enjoy what you have now and don't let people tell you that everything you bought for your hobby is obsolete.

So is it a fact that X-plane will have Vulkan????

Have you seen it on your PC yet??? Or is it just your opinion based on what you heard about Vulkan??? Does any of this reasoning sound familiar???

Nothing that you stated distracts from the fact that MSFS is far superior to X-Plane regarding the air, land, & sea...X-Plane is years behind that type of development...

If "you" don't know by now, then I can't help you. There is plenty of info available...

So let's see here...

MSFS invited reviewers for a preview of the sim...asked the reviewers to fly anywhere in sim...even over their own homes....and then took the reviewers on a real flight for a comparison.

Well that's not your "normal" review....but that sure is good enough for me.

And certainly enough for me to tell someone to save their money until MSFS is released.

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2 hours ago, HumptyDumpty said:

 If was to take your advice i will be stuck using the default and a few nice freeware helis and never would be able to enjoy XP11 using the paid helis X-trident / dreamfoil which are top notch. 

end of discussion from my end. Over and Out.

 

 

My advice was for a person who doesn't have X-Plane, and was deciding to get XP11 or wait for MSFS.

Your statement has nothing to do with someone in that position, and thus, there should not have been a discussion to have. So I agree..."you" should end it.

Edited by FlyBaby

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22 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

Nothing that you stated distracts from the fact that MSFS is far superior to X-Plane regarding the air, land, & sea...X-Plane is years behind that type of development..

Wow, I thought your posts were reasonable but now I think you're bordering on trolling. First of all, as I said, air land and sea are very important but not the only things in a sim. What if someone is interested in helicopters? Or complex airliners? What if he's interested in using synthetic ATC? VR? These are all unknowns in MFS for now.

Second, as others have said, there are still other unknowns. What fps will MFS have on a mid range pc? Will it still have the noticeable popup of objects and scenery at release? Someone couldn't care less about popups, for some other that could be a deal breaker.

How will XP look in a year from now after Vulkan is completed and priorities will be on improving visuals? Many unknowns and subjective factors.

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Just now, FlyBaby said:

My advice was for a person who doesn't have X-Plane, and was deciding to get XP11 or wait for MSFS.

Your statement has nothing to do with someone in that position, and thus, there should not have been a discussion to have. So I agree..."you" should end it.

Yes your statement was for a person who doesn't have X-plane but you have not understood any of it and i think even you should end it. 

Edited by HumptyDumpty

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@FlyBaby I'm just curious as to why you are so passionate on your opinion about FS2020 in an X-Plane forum?  To the point that you are writing X-Plane off as a piece of flight sim history when you've only seen videos and screenshots of FS2020 in it's pre alpha state.  

Vulkan IS coming to X-Plane.  I've seen images of X-Plane using Vulkan.  I'm in contact with at least 1 staff member at Laminar who is implementing it into X-Plane.  It's obvious you love FS2020, in whatever state it's in, but so what if X-Plane is still here.  DCS is still around.  FlightGear is still around.  P3D and FSX will still be around.  But all I see from a large group of people in this community is "X-Plane is finished".  No one is holding a gun to your head to fly X-Plane.  And because of your staunch position on FS2020, how passionately you are conveying your arguments, and, in your opinion, how much better FS2020 is than X-Plane is (even in it's current state), or will be, the X-Plane section of the AVSIM forums is obviously not for you.  

Edited by GoranM
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There is no doubt that MSFS looks incredible within the caveat of we are seeing what MS want us to see at the moment. As others have mentioned there are an incredible number of unknowns about it. The one that is most prominent in my mind is profitability. Given the numbers of developers woking on it, and the sheer amount of data involved you have to wonder how Microsoft plan to make a profit. We all know that they are using Bing maps imagery but there is a pretty good chance that that satellite imagery is licensed from third party provider. I would imagine there would be extra costs involved in licensing that data for game (simulator) use. Even if there is not, most large corporations have internal charging, its not a great leap of imagination to suggest Bing maps will be charging Microsoft Games for the use of their imagery. Then factor in the supposedly 100+ developers working on this and the time scale it has taken to get to pre-alpha (5 years according to some). That is a serious capital outlay that needs to be recouped and profited on.

Now with this being Microsoft we know they will have crunched the numbers and we know they think they can profit from it. However, its not a create leap of faith to suggest those numbers involve X-Box players as a greater proportion of than the PC users. Are X-Box users likely to stick around on MS Flight Simulator? That remains to be seen. What we do know is that console devs rely on massive yearly (and full price) updates to keep them profitable. Look at FIFA, look at Call of Duty, look at the prices charged for them. As far as I can see, MS must have another way of extracting money from it's users over and above the initial cost or subscription fees. It's well known MS have no qualms in shutting down things that are not making a profit as MS Flight and FSX have demonstrated.

The original question was "Get Xp11 or wait for new MSFS?" If it were me in this situation and, I would buy X-Plane 11 and wait until it is clear that MSFS will be a success before even considering it. If you are hard core simmer I would suggest that would be at least 12 months after release as a bare minimum and more like 24 months. Or in other words 3 years from now. Put another way, using X-Plane for those 3 years will cost you $20 per year. 

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4 hours ago, tonywob said:

Photogrammetry cities are pitch black at night and look like they're from a zombie movie.

Exactly, my biggest concern and surprise so far. It really looks like the power outage or the post apocalyptic future, LOL. I'd say they'll get there eventually, but it's really strange, especially when the day light effects look pretty impressive.

Edited by Arasaka

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It's obvious, they bit off a big chunk and now they're very busy chewing. 

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7 hours ago, yidahoo said:

Then factor in the supposedly 100+ developers working on this and the time scale it has taken to get to pre-alpha (5 years according to some). That is a serious capital outlay that needs to be recouped and profited on.

Timing is interesting. In July 2014 Microsoft licensed FSX code to Dovetail Games and in December FSX: Steam Edition was released. So Microsoft started the development of MSFS on the same time period? Dovetail released their Flight Sim World in May 2017 and canceled it in May 2018. Maybe they got some information about Microsoft new project and thought that paying for Microsoft to use/modify FSX codebase is not practical anymore? 

The development is done by Asobo Studio SARL (completely outside of Microsoft), so there should be big business plan behind everything. 

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8 hours ago, yidahoo said:

...Now with this being Microsoft we know they will have crunched the numbers and we know they think they can profit from it. However, its not a create leap of faith to suggest those numbers involve X-Box players as a greater proportion of than the PC users. Are X-Box users likely to stick around on MS Flight Simulator? That remains to be seen...

I share your skepticism, but I wanted to point out that Microsoft currently has a sizable install base to draw upon for potential sales. Firstly; going by Steam sales alone, based on the numbers quoted by steamspy FSX:SE has sold in excess of 1 million copies on that service. My buddy that works in videogame marketing who has access to the actual numbers, tells me it's closer to 1.5 million. Many of those are repeat customers who bought the original boxed edition or FSX Gold, but there would no doubt be some new customers included in that number. So the Windows install base is almost certainly larger - who knows how much larger?

Some fans posting in the MFS forum here who've bought into the Microsoft hype, have been claiming it's an absolute that FS2020 will be an exclusive for the new XBox Project Scarlet which debuts in 2020. I disagree, mostly because MS have garnered a nice sized install base of roughly 40 million for the various editions of the XBox 1. Not nearly the install base they had obtained at this point in the XBox 360 life cycle (about 70 million), but a healthy one none the less. I don't see them turning their backs on that pool of customers, albeit it might only run optimally on the newer XBox 1 X and be throttled back for the original and S editions.

FS2020 will no doubt appeal to a small fraction of that XB1 market, but even so it's very possible it could do sales on that system in the mid 100k's; maybe even as high as 1 million.  So IMO MS has a potential market numbering in the millions and an opportunity to recoup a good chunk of development costs in the first few years.

Edited by Kronovan

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I think we could do with dialing back the boldprint butthurt a bit in this thread.

Everyone gets to state their opinion...but when you find yourself doing it over and over and over in the same thread, then it gets received as badgering, bickering, etc.   So...let's...not.

 

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Well, yes, maybe MSFS will be nicer and etc. For now we just know what they want. Maybe they make their demos on super high end computers, maybe not.. We don't know.
This said, nicer or not, I will continue to support Xplane and buy addons for this simulator. First, because I like the sim, after, because it's a small company and I feel I have to
support small companies. Or will we let the giants eating all the "little"? Also because I like the personality of Austin, it's clear he is in love with what he do and the guy is
very friendly, I like that, the human side. So, at the end, I will maybe buy MSFS, yes, but this don't means I will abandon Xplane.
Sorry for my.. broken English (as someone here said).

A good day to everyone 🙂

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