Undocking Pop-Up Windows and Frame Rate Loss

[chrisal 9]

Don't get too excited.

After further testing I've found that yes, as previously, the driver re-install does the trick. But, re-boot the pc and we're back to square one.

Obviously I did not touch the NV panel settings as discussed above. I'm not prepared to re-install the NV driver every day so this was a false trail - for me anyway.

Can anyone else confirm or refute my findings?

Cheers

Chris

[LecLightning56 33]

12 minutes ago, chrisal said:

Don't get too excited.

After further testing I've found that yes, as previously, the driver re-install does the trick. But, re-boot the pc and we're back to square one.

Obviously I did not touch the NV panel settings as discussed above. I'm not prepared to re-install the NV driver every day so this was a false trail - for me anyway.

Can anyone else confirm or refute my findings?

Cheers

Chris

It does seem rather as you have said. It may be a remedial measure as and when required but after I had restarted my PC this morning I noted that I was as yourself, back to square one. A temporary fix maybe but we need to identify what exactly is going on with the graphics driver such that a reboot breaks everything in this respect. 

[chrisal 9]

Hi again,

Solved my problem I think.

After research...

1. A simple solution is to reset the card with Windows+CTRL+Shift+ B. This works for me.

 

2. But the real problem was that I auto-load the EVGA Precision app to over-clock my card (1070ti) and it runs in the background. As soon as I close the app the undock problem goes away!

3. As a bonus it turns out on re-boot the NV settings are loaded first then Windows 10 overrides some of them, particularly Colour settings. Good to know, but that's not our problem here. Link here to stop this happening - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMs5rnrfmA

Please let me know if this helps - or not.

Chris

[LecLightning56 33]

I may have found another solution which seems to work after a number of reboots and at least one complete shutdown. After a reinstall of the graphics driver selecting a custom reinstallation with clean installation ticked, if you then (without rebooting initially) delete all the shaders in the \users\username\appdata\Local\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ folder then reboot, upon starting up Prepar3D v4 the undock problem is not present. All subsequent reboots/shutdowns do not result in a recurrence of the undock problem.

Thanks for the reset sequence for the graphics card which is a good shortcut.

[LecLightning56 33]

6 hours ago, chrisal said:

Hi again,

Solved my problem I think.

After research...

1. A simple solution is to reset the card with Windows+CTRL+Shift+ B. This works for me.

 

2. But the real problem was that I auto-load the EVGA Precision app to over-clock my card (1070ti) and it runs in the background. As soon as I close the app the undock problem goes away!

3. As a bonus it turns out on re-boot the NV settings are loaded first then Windows 10 overrides some of them, particularly Colour settings. Good to know, but that's not our problem here. Link here to stop this happening - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMs5rnrfmA

Please let me know if this helps - or not.

Chris

This is only a partial solution to me. I am finding that provided I don't touch the NV settings, the undock problem remains absent. However, if I switch on e.g. G-Sync from within the NV settings, the problem returns.

Have you managed to change the NV settings with no penalties when undocking?

Edit:

After having made changes to the settings in Nvidia Control Panel (and hence back to square one with frame loss), if I change the refresh rate of my primary monitor to match the secondary monitor (60Hz), then change it to 144Hz normality is restored and the undock problem disappears.

Edited August 30, 2019 by LecLightning56

[LecLightning56 33]

After much fiddling around as one does with these things, I finally stumbled across the fact that G-Sync has been causing the frame rate loss with undocked pop-up windows. With G-Sync switched off, there does not appear to be a problem. By G-Sync in my case I do not mean pure Nvidia G-Sync, but the G-Sync compatibility permitted with the latest drivers if you have a AMD Freesync monitor (as I have).

I am not entirely sure that G-Sync is essential to P3D since we probably do not see much screen tearing and it could be a bit of a placebo effect that things seem somehow smoother with G-Sync switched on. If anyone has a workaround that uses G-Sync similarly to me that does not encounter any undocking frame loss, then please broadcast it here. 

[Shylock_35 43]

So I’m running a delided 8086k overclocked to stable 5.3 on water cooled and temps under load hit 73 degrees. I have 32 GB of ram and I’m running 1080ti FTW in SLI. Running at 4K with FPS unlimited I find at KSFOHD in the PMDG 737 running Active sky, UTC2 at 40% lowest FPS I’ll get while taxiing is 30-35. I get no stutters or long pauses running in SLI. 

While building my 737 simpit I’ve recently added a FDS CDU. Amazing piece. Once in p3dv4.5HF and undocking the CDU in the PMDG my FPS goes to 2. Two!!! I like many of you have searched forums for answers and nothing has worked. In the NVIDIA forums they say it’s P3D and in the P3D forums they say it’s NVIDIA drivers that don’t allow the GPU recognize a screen running on another window. FDS forums nobody can answer it.

I have not fired up p3d since (4 weeks) because it’s not enjoyable to spend more time trouble shooting then actual flying. Having a pretty high end system that can run everything maxed but can’t run p3d with an undocked window is so frustrating I’m considering other platforms now. 

[LecLightning56 33]

1 hour ago, Shylock_35 said:

So I’m running a delided 8086k overclocked to stable 5.3 on water cooled and temps under load hit 73 degrees. I have 32 GB of ram and I’m running 1080ti FTW in SLI. Running at 4K with FPS unlimited I find at KSFOHD in the PMDG 737 running Active sky, UTC2 at 40% lowest FPS I’ll get while taxiing is 30-35. I get no stutters or long pauses running in SLI. 

While building my 737 simpit I’ve recently added a FDS CDU. Amazing piece. Once in p3dv4.5HF and undocking the CDU in the PMDG my FPS goes to 2. Two!!! I like many of you have searched forums for answers and nothing has worked. In the NVIDIA forums they say it’s P3D and in the P3D forums they say it’s NVIDIA drivers that don’t allow the GPU recognize a screen running on another window. FDS forums nobody can answer it.

I have not fired up p3d since (4 weeks) because it’s not enjoyable to spend more time trouble shooting then actual flying. Having a pretty high end system that can run everything maxed but can’t run p3d with an undocked window is so frustrating I’m considering other platforms now. 

It is deeply worrying that such a fundamental issue governing the functionality of the sim has slipped by the wayside without so much as a definite fix that solves the problem for all concerned. It may be that what has fixed it for some has not for others which does suggest an element of system-dependency. Perhaps LM is satisfied that, on the basis of what has been reported on their forums and allegedly resolved, there is no urgent requirement for a permanent fix. I personally have a bitter taste in my mouth over this and feel that it is really of fundamental concern that users should be able to utilise the undock capability with a multi-monitor setup without severe penalties in their ability to run the sim comfortably and enjoyably. Maybe a new thread on the LM forums is required to get the ball rolling and impress the fact that the usual recommendations do not work for all: in my case I have discovered that I cannot use G-Sync with my primary monitor if I undock to another, non-GSync monitor without significant frame rate loss. A response along the lines "do not use G-Sync" may be all I shall get in the support forums!

[LecLightning56 33]

Cracked it for G-Sync in full screen mode. If you do not disable full screen optimisations by right-clicking Properties with Prepar3D.exe and selecting the Compatibility tab to untick this option, I can run G-Sync on my primary monitor and expect little frame loss with an undocked pop-up window dragged onto a second (non G-Sync) monitor in full screen mode.

 

 

[Michael Moe 495]

hmm this "issue" having FPS cut in half undocking and moving windows to as second screen is back and also i cant re-help myself with above recommendations.

latest P3Dv5.1HF1

 

Anyone else ?

Thanks

Michael Moe 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Michael Moe

[Michael Moe 495]

On 8/27/2019 at 9:14 AM, Michael Moe said:

This issue pops up from time to time on my system but not so often anymore so i forget what the cause is.

It happens when i undock the CDUII FMC. I think its related to VSYNC and refreshrate of the screen.

Try change the refreshrate of the second monitor back and forth. Sometimes i think W10 is screwing the refresh up.

Second you could also try a driver reinstall.

Normally it drop 1-2 fps vs 1 screen.

Michael Moe

A reminder that this did work after shutting down the monitor in NCP and then enable it again with the above using no VSYNC during calibrating. Shutting down P3D and restart with VSYNC ON no fps drop.

Michael Moe

[Rocky_53 1,579]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:59 PM, LecLightning56 said:

I thought I needed further convincing and this has proved to be exactly the case. If you perform a clean installation of the Nvidia graphics driver using DDU uninstaller in safe mode, then reinstall the latest drivers, I find that in the absence of any adjustments within the Nvidia Control Panel (NCP) and also any graphics overlay from  GeForce Experience (GFE), the frame rate issue does not occur. If, however, I adjust e.g. the Low Latency mode setting in the Nvidia Control Panel to e.g. Ultra from an off setting, it breaks the zero frame rate loss situation with undocking pop-up windows and frame rate loss occurs. The test of this is that, once having gone back to the bad old days of the frame rate loss situation, if you clean uninstall all Nvidia traces with DDU Uninstaller then reinstall the latest graphics driver, frame rate loss does not occur. I cannot speak of GeForce Experience, and some have reported that the graphics overlay has caused problems when set in GFE, but other than advertising the latest driver updates (which you can install manually anyway), GFE may have little application to users of Prepar3D v4. I believe that LM are advising users not to install GFE on account of conflicts with the self-same frame rate loss issue.

Another consideration is that there may be little to gain from making wholesale changes to settings in NCP although they may of course be beneficial to users of the gaming community for which Nvidia seems to serve and be driven by, not necessarily to our advantage. Whilst on that note, it is bizarre that the likes of Nvidia are driven by increasingly more improvements to the gaming industry, offering that elusive 100% more fps with the latest driver, whilst we sit on the fence wondering when we finally see more tangible improvements to our sims gratis of Nvidia or perhaps radical changes in the coding of the sim which capitalise more fully on advances in the graphics capability.

So, my conclusion is that the frame rate loss issue can be resolved but certain tweaks in NCP which may not be wholly appropriate to P3D will break this, necessitating a clean reinstall of the graphics driver to restore the situation of zero or little frame rate loss when undocking.

 

I have just this minute discovered exactly the same!

[MäxliBäxli 41]

I remember that i also had that kind of annoying FPS Drops months ago when i undocked panels...in the P3D Forum it was stated as follows: "This issue is usually resolved by disabling any streaming or recording features such as the win10 gaming bar and shadowplay."  (https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131642)

As i don´t use the VC it is hard to compare with other simmers, but actually while only using 2D Panels on my 7 Monitor setup (with many undocked panels) this issue is gone on my system.

Greets,

Markus