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rhumbaflappy

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14 minutes ago, Toktok said:

What's the big deal? NDA/EULA. Educate yourself further on what NDA legally means.

Try reading my comment and educate yourself as to what I said... When you understand, let me know.


Matthew S

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1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

Frankly, if MS are inviting Alpha/Beta testers from the community then I think they should at least let the testers post screenshots and videos, what's the big deal anyway?

Because Alphas and Betas are full of bugs, performance woes, and unfinished details.

No developers wants that stuff out in the open unchecked.

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1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

Frankly, if MS are inviting Alpha/Beta testers from the community then I think they should at least let the testers post screenshots and videos, what's the big deal anyway?

Hi Matthew.

As stated above, MS would not want goof-ups to be displayed. Just look at all the posts picking apart the pics and videos they have shown.

That said, Microsoft hasn't actually stated there will be an NDA in effect. Just speculating on their past practice with Flight sim testing. What I wanted to convey, is the Alphas will probably not be a lot of fun. The FSX Betas were lively at times. 🙂

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3 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Because Alphas and Betas are full of bugs, performance woes, and unfinished details.

No developers wants that stuff out in the open unchecked.

MS can take whatever approach they like, like saying to testers, you are free to post screenshots/videos of plane X, airport Y, using build Z.   So I hope that's what they do.... 

And of course they can include the build# in the top right hand corner of screen so that all screenshots/videos are marked with the build#, to make it obvious what we are looking at.


Matthew S

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9 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Try reading my comment and educate yourself as to what I said... When you understand, let me know.

Your full statement - which I read carefully -  informs me that you do not understand how NDA works. Developers, let alone a multi-billion dollar company such as Microsoft, don't haphazardly allow testers to post pics or videos of progress work that is under NDA. Again, educate yourself of the legalese of NDAs before posting uninformed suppositions.


Edited for speeling

Visit the tribe @ http://islandsim.com

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I'm not sure mass public invites to the alpha/beta, or whatever, constitutes a traditional beta like we've seen in the past.  If you ask me, it looks like they've been in beta for a while now.  This looks more to me like; let's see if it will actually run on the user(s) machines, and we'll tweak it from there.

That doesn't mean traditional NDAs wouldn't apply along with other re-broadcast/posting restrictions, if so deemed by MS.

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1 minute ago, rhumbaflappy said:

That said, Microsoft hasn't actually stated there will be an NDA in effect. Just speculating on their past practice with Flight sim testing. What I wanted to convey, is the Alphas will probably not be a lot of fun. The FSX Betas were lively at times.

Well, the community I think is hungry for any info... I imagine there will only be a handful of testers (less than 20).

I would be interested in seeing the current depiction of Philippines/Thailand, even if it's full of bugs. 


Matthew S

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2 minutes ago, Toktok said:

Your full statement - which I read carefully -  informs me that you do not understand how NDA works. Developers, let alone a multi-billion dollar company such as Microsoft, don't haphazardly allow testers to post pics or videos of progress work that is under NDA. Again, educate yourself of the legalese of NDAs before posting uninformed suppositions.

Sure I understand how an NDA works, I'm a developer and I said "I think they should at least let the testers post screenshots and videos".

In otherwords, MS sets the T&C of their own NDA, so if MS wants to allow screenshots/videos to be posted that's up to them.  You understand me now?


Matthew S

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Just now, MatthewS said:

Sure I understand how an NDA works, I'm a developer and I said "I think they should at least let the testers post screenshots and videos".

In otherwords, MS sets the T&C of their own NDA, so if MS wants to allow screenshots/videos to be posted that's up to them.  You understand me now?

I agree.  I think before letting the public in, they should be at a point where those folks can go ahead and stream, post, do whatever.  Use the last test phase as the first part of their marketing plan.  It kind of seems like that's where they might be going.

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People, do you really believe they need anyone to test anything for them?

We are talking about Microsoft here. The company has been around for over 40 years now. They know what they are doing.


A computer user can be a gamer, or a simmer, or both. Having fun with a simulator does not mean that the simulator ceased being a simulator and is now a game. Simulators are not played, simulators are used. Simulators are simulators, and games are games. A software product could be both. In the case of MSFS, from https://www.flightsimulator.com/june-20th-2019/"We are making Microsoft Flight Simulator. Emphasis on the word SIMULATOR."

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3 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Sure I understand how an NDA works, I'm a developer and I said "I think they should at least let the testers post screenshots and videos".

In otherwords, MS sets the T&C of their own NDA, so if MS wants to allow screenshots/videos to be posted that's up to them.  You understand me now?

I will tell you now that Microsoft will NOT/cannot afford to risk exposing their product during and after final WIP build simply because we are demanding progress work via testers. Via testers. They control the work-flow from start to finish and will ONLY show glimpse of progress stages at their own pace and scheduled DR.


Edited for speeling

Visit the tribe @ http://islandsim.com

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4 minutes ago, Toktok said:

I will tell you now that Microsoft will NOT/cannot afford to risk exposing their product during and after final WIP build simply because we are demanding progress work via testers. Via testers. They control the work-flow from start to finish and will ONLY show glimpse of progress stages at their own pace and scheduled DR.

Dude, you don't know what they're going to do...rofl.  They've clearly risked a bit already.

Edited by Jeff Nielsen
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1 minute ago, Toktok said:

I will tell you now that Microsoft will NOT/cannot afford to risk exposing their product during and after final WIP build simply because we are demanding progress work via testers. Via testers. They control the work-flow from start to finish and will ONLY show glimpse of progress stages at their own pace and scheduled DR.

And how do you know any of this? Seems to me you're the one making the assumptions.

Lets just say its a case of "there are more things in heaven and Earth, TokTok, than are dreamt of in your philosophy".


Matthew S

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Just now, MatthewS said:

And how do you know any of this? Seems to me you're the one making the assumptions.

Lets just say its a case of "there are more things in heaven and Earth, TokTok, than are dreamt of in your philosophy".

What assumption? I am going by the DR and progress work already shown (pics and videos) since June. It is in the weekly/monthly updates we are seeing so far. There is really no need for testers to tell me how the progress work looks. You should pay attention to the DR because that is Microsoft's roadmap.. 


Edited for speeling

Visit the tribe @ http://islandsim.com

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8 minutes ago, Toktok said:

There is really no need for testers to tell me how the progress work looks

Good for you. I would like testers to post as many screenshots/videos as they can, I don't care if it's WIP or not.

Edited by MatthewS

Matthew S

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