eslader

AIG plane behavior question

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Just started messing with AIG. Enjoying it so far. But the traffic it generates isn't very smart. The planes taxi into each other all the time. They also like to taxi through my airplane from behind.  Is this normal behavior, or is there a way to make them avoid each other (and me)?

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3 hours ago, eslader said:

Just started messing with AIG. Enjoying it so far. But the traffic it generates isn't very smart. The planes taxi into each other all the time. They also like to taxi through my airplane from behind.  Is this normal behavior, or is there a way to make them avoid each other (and me)?

Normal behaviour.. you can try to use some 3rd party ATC tools to control the situation.. but reducing the amount of AI traffic also helps.

PRO-ATCX for example freeze AI on the ground to try to avoid collisions, but it is not perfect as this can still happen.. I will let others to recommend you more solutions, etc.

S.

Edited by simbol

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4 hours ago, eslader said:

Just started messing with AIG. Enjoying it so far. But the traffic it generates isn't very smart. The planes taxi into each other all the time. They also like to taxi through my airplane from behind.  Is this normal behavior, or is there a way to make them avoid each other (and me)?

The problem is not with AIG. The problem is at the door of L-M (and Microsoft before them) who have not fixed these problems in the underlying ESP code. I have written on the L-M forum asking for these long-standing problems to be fixed. Whether they will or won't is not known since they do not reply to requests.

If they don't fix them in v5 then I see no point in moving to that version when it becomes available.

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AI planes should not taxi through each other, and they generally only taxi through a user's plane if you are side on to them (either pushing back across a taxiway using the default pushback procedure, or if you stop halfway through a tight corner). If they are passing through each other "head on", then there is either a problem with the AFD file (multiple connections on the same taxiway), or else you have multiple AFD files for a particular airport active at the same time.

The default ATC system is actually quite clever if used properly. I rarely encounter problems with AI planes taxiing through each other.

I do not use the AIG utility, but I do use a custom database of AI models and flightplans (and most of the latter are from AIG).

Edited by Christopher Low
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As per above, I find AI on the ground is well behaved. The biggest bugbear I have, and I think many others do, is too many planes trying to land at once or cutting across in front of you on finals,it ruins the immersion.

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Yes, I agree. It always makes me cringe when I see two AI planes on top of each other during final approach :blink:

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3 hours ago, Ian S said:

As per above, I find AI on the ground is well behaved. The biggest bugbear I have, and I think many others do, is too many planes trying to land at once or cutting across in front of you on finals,it ruins the immersion.

 

3 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Yes, I agree. It always makes me cringe when I see two AI planes on top of each other during final approach :blink:

I use Super Traffic Board to solve this. My AI is spaced quite nicely with each other and me too. I set AIG (all available plans installed, checked daily-weekly) to 100%. 

I personally have not ever seen 2 AI go through each other.

I use ASP4 for weather and I use the Force ATC wind lock option to prevent runway confusion as the AI /ATC logic is not suited very well for wind shifts and runway changes.

I adjust the AI timeout setting to prevent AI from disappearing so quickly, if holding or in que waiting. 

I use several utilities to help:

  • Radar Contact or ProATC/x - Pro ATC/x does better on ground traffic conflicts
  • (the already mentioned) Super Traffic Board - helps to separate traffic around airports
  • Edit Voice Pack - to speed communications between (default) ATC and AI
  • Time Zone Fixer - to help be sure schedules are correct

 

No doubt the ATC /AI in ESP is lacking, but it can be managed adequately until a better system comes along.

 

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7 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

then there is either a problem with the AFD file (multiple connections on the same taxiway), or else you have multiple AFD files for a particular airport active at the same time.

I can see that as a possibility. I'm noticing it mainly at KORD - the new one from FSDT. Maybe there's some weirdness going on under the hood beyond just "It's O'hare, it's really busy, so there's more planes to run into."

I do know that in times past when I was running P3d without P2ATC or AIG, AI planes would stop for me. Sometimes that got annoying because ATC would have me taxi and then an AI plane would turn onto the taxiway and play chicken with me, usually stopping right in the middle of the intersection I needed to turn at. But at least it would stop. Now planes just ghost through each other constantly.

 

The weird part is that, while the planes are still way too close for realism on final, the trailing plane will go around which tells me there is some sort of separation logic going on. Your theory would explain that disparity.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

 

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1 hour ago, eslader said:

while the planes are still way too close for realism on final, the trailing plane will go around which tells me there is some sort of separation logic going on.

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Yes, I agree. It always makes me cringe when I see two AI planes on top of each other during final approach 

5 hours ago, Ian S said:

As per above, I find AI on the ground is well behaved. The biggest bugbear I have, and I think many others do, is too many planes trying to land at once or cutting across in front of you on finals,it ruins the immersion.

9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The problem is not with AIG. The problem is at the door of L-M (and Microsoft before them) who have not fixed these problems in the underlying ESP code


I'm going to keep banging the drum for this until there's a fix / another solution:
https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=aicontroller14b.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

Works well at AI separation, both on approach and during taxiing.

Does take some time to get up and running as I use the SID and STARS function, so I start it before launching P3D.
 

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33 minutes ago, F737NG said:


I'm going to keep banging the drum for this until there's a fix / another solution:
https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=aicontroller14b.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

Works well at AI separation, both on approach and during taxiing.

Does take some time to get up and running as I use the SID and STARS function, so I start it before launching P3D.
 

Thanks. I'll give it a try. But remember, prevention is better than cure and LM have had plenty of time to fix this and the other annoying issues with Ai. Like stopping on a sixpence after landing. Absolutely ridiculous these problems still exist when they released v1.4 back in August 2012. 😠 Seven years and still the same problems.

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks. I'll give it a try. But remember, prevention is better than cure and LM have had plenty of time to fix this and the other annoying issues with Ai. Like stopping on a sixpence after landing. Absolutely ridiculous these problems still exist when they released v1.4 back in August 2012. 😠 Seven years and still the same problems.

Ray

Please let us know how it works with the AIG AI Manager app and any issues you find, I am very interested!

Thanks in advance

Joe

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1 minute ago, joepoway said:

Ray

Please let us know how it works with the AIG AI Manager app and any issues you find, I am very interested!

Thanks in advance

Joe

Will do Joe.

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I have had My Traffic 6 and now UT Live. and use PF3. I have never seen AI run into each other, and when I am taxiing, AI is stopped until I pass the intersection , and then continues taxiing. 

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4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Like stopping on a sixpence after landing. Absolutely ridiculous these problems still exist when they released v1.4 back in August 2012.

 That's got nothing really to do with the sim, but the FDE for the AI aircraft. They are designed to use minimal runway on landing to help reduce the Runway Occupancy times. There are alternate FDE's to try from one of the users at AIG, but by fixing some faults you ultimately introduce others. As much as we'd love to think it, the sim (FS9, FSX, P3d) was never designed as an AI simulator.

Hopefully, things will be different in upcoming versions of P3d or the new FS.

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1 minute ago, Dave_YVR said:

 That's got nothing really to do with the sim, but the FDE for the AI aircraft. They are designed to use minimal runway on landing to help reduce the Runway Occupancy times. There are alternate FDE's to try from one of the users at AIG, but by fixing some faults you ultimately introduce others. As much as we'd love to think it, the sim (FS9, FSX, P3d) was never designed as an AI simulator.

Hopefully, things will be different in upcoming versions of P3d or the new FS.

I’ve tried editing aircraft.cfg for selected AIG aircraft to improve landing but it’s a tedious task and has limited success. But once Microsoft added the feature for Ai they should have continued to tweak it. And LM certainly should have worked on it given all the other improvements they’ve made to the core program.

I have no interest in FS2020 as I’m not prepared to wipe the slate clean and start again when 90% of 64-bit P3D is absolutely fine. The only time I might consider it is if FS Labs decided it was their preferred platform for a 64-bit Concorde. But we’re talking a long time before they make that decision. Possibly years.

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5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 LM have had plenty of time to fix this and the other annoying issues with Ai. Like stopping on a sixpence after landing. Absolutely ridiculous these problems still exist when they released v1.4 back in August 2012. 😠 Seven years and still the same problems.

Maybe misbehaving AI traffic is not exactly a top priority on LM's list? :rolleyes:

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If they are as committed to the flightsim community as some people say they are, then it should be.

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If I make an airport with one way on and off the runway, fill the sky and parking. Sooner or later one coming off meets one coming on. I've not seen it where they intersect.

The AI is not built to circumvent these problems easily so it must be handled correctly.

The key here is not to expect a knife to do the job of a machete.

The AI traffic and airport taxiways should be experimented with and traffic schedules injected that can be coped with.

Improvements would be handy.

Edited by SteveW

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This finger pointing, they are to blame, seems ungrateful. They are not to be blamed for providing something that we, at least have something for use. If it's not been upgraded to some imagined level by now then we have to wait for it to come. We can decide not to purchase if it's no better next time.

Edited by SteveW

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Maybe something better is required. Here's ROBOPilot:

20190904_Aerospace_Story1.jpg

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21 hours ago, F737NG said:


I'm going to keep banging the drum for this until there's a fix / another solution:
https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=aicontroller14b.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

Works well at AI separation, both on approach and during taxiing.

Does take some time to get up and running as I use the SID and STARS function, so I start it before launching P3D.
 

I have it installed and running. Somewhat more complex than I imagined. The only issue I came across are some entries in scenery.cfg have an absolute path which probably isn't necessary as it's not present in the majority which AiM didn't like across a network.

I have it running on a separate PC via SimConnect which allows Ai Monitor to be displayed. A BA777 has just departed 27L at EGLL to UUEE and no Pattern entry was displayed initially. Soon after take-off the Flight Status changed to SID and the BPK7G SID was listed.

No effect on P3D as the data capture is very low apparently but I chose EGLL as it's probably my hardest hit on Ai with over 300 in an 80nm bubble. Too early to have a full picture of what it can do but over time its benefits should become apparent.

Having a PMDG aircraft helps as the wpNavRTE.txt file can be copied into the parent AiC folder and used to provide all the world's jetways.

The authors of both programs are to be congratulated. Thanks for bringing this to our attention @F737NG.

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45 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Having a PMDG aircraft helps as the wpNavRTE.txt file can be copied into the parent AiC folder and used to provide all the world's jetways.

If one has a Navigraph subscription, the PMDG-format navdata can be downloaded and used in AIC regardless of whether they have any PMDG add-ons.

 

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1 hour ago, w6kd said:

If one has a Navigraph subscription, the PMDG-format navdata can be downloaded and used in AIC regardless of whether they have any PMDG add-ons.

Bob, I do have a Navigraph FMS subscription but what is AIC? I’m using Ai Companion - a freebie for monitoring AIG Ai - but I suspect you mean something else.

And how is this data loaded?

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AIC = AI Controller...is this not what we're talking about here? 

You mentioned that having a PMDG acft allows you to copy wpNavRTE.txt into AIC and use it...my point is that file is a standard part of the PMDG-format Navigraph navdata updates.

 

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7 minutes ago, w6kd said:

AIC = AI Controller...is this not what we're talking about here? 

You mentioned that having a PMDG acft allows you to copy wpNavRTE.txt into AIC and use it...my point is that file is a standard part of the PMDG-format Navigraph navdata updates.

 

Yes, it just shares the same TLA as Ai Companion. It's been a tiring day.

AIC is not in the list of supported programs in Navigraph FMS Data Manager so the only way it can be updated is a manual copy each month. Unless you know of a different method?

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