eslader

AIG plane behavior question

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

AIC is not in the list of supported programs in Navigraph FMS Data Manager so the only way it can be updated is a manual copy each month. Unless you know of a different method?

No, but writing a quick batch file to do the copy and putting a shortcut to that on the desktop right next to the Navigraph FMS Manager would make it pretty simple.  I prefer to automate tasks I know I'm going to repeat.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

22 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have had My Traffic 6 and now UT Live. and use PF3. I have never seen AI run into each other, and when I am taxiing, AI is stopped until I pass the intersection , and then continues taxiing. 

Ditto!

 

No complaints with UTL at all!!!

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, w6kd said:

No, but writing a quick batch file to do the copy and putting a shortcut to that on the desktop right next to the Navigraph FMS Manager would make it pretty simple.  I prefer to automate tasks I know I'm going to repeat.

I already have a few batch files to copy flight plans and various other files so I'll just include that one. It will probably get copied multiple times per month but better to do that than have yet another batch file.

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/5/2019 at 5:47 PM, F737NG said:

I'm going to keep banging the drum for this until there's a fix / another solution:
https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=aicontroller14b.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

Works well at AI separation, both on approach and during taxiing.

Does take some time to get up and running as I use the SID and STARS function, so I start it before launching P3D.
 

I've spent a lot of time today trying to understand how the SID/STAR process works. I have been using the sample files that came with the program but they don't cover some areas I fly in.

So I ran the SID/STAR Converter process which takes around 3 hours to complete. At the end of it I had a parent folder named XX and a sub-folder for every country in the sim. Within each country sub-folder there were multiple TXT files for each SID and STAR.

I pointed AiMonitor to that top folder - XX - expecting it to be able to read the txt files two folders down. But it couldn't.

The supplied files also have a top level but crucially have a second level sub-folder with the name of the ICAO. Within that are the txt files. That seems to be the only way the program can read the data.

Have you managed to generate your own files to match the structure of the sample ones? I'm struggling.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Have you managed to generate your own files to match the structure of the sample ones? I'm struggling.

It's not intuitive, tbf.

- Go to the SIDSTAR Converter folder in your installed AIControllerV14B folder to find the Readme.pdf.

- Run the SIDSTAR Converter program.
Input Path is [Your drive]\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\PMDG\SIDSTARS
Output Path is wherever you want the data to be created.
Amend the next 4 rows of data fields as desired.
Leave the 3 check boxes empty.
AiConv.exe Path is [...]\AIController\AIControllerV14B.
Runway.exe Path is your main P3D folder location.
Choose 'Enable All' from the four choices.
Press the 'Convert' button above and wait.

- Here's where it gets tedious...
In the program AIMonitor.exe, in Settings, select the 4th option on the list 'SIDS, STARS, Approaches and Finals (Nav Data required)'.
Next press the 'Add Path' button to choose the folder location of the first country that you wish to add.
Repeat for all of the countries that you want to include 'Arrival Paths' (STARS) for in your sim.
Ensure the checkbox is selected for all of them (press 'Select All' button if they are not), then finally when ready, press the 'Apply button.

The same process needs to occur for the 'SID Paths' in the box underneath.

- Finally, in Settings, choose 'Options', 'General Options', choose an AI holding/Go-around mode per the graph on the top left and add the value to the box above, e.g. 1 for Holding Mode 1 (Holding at STAR Entry WP). 
AI Custom Hold should be '0'
Ensure that 6th box down on right side of the same options window is 'AI STAR selection mode' has '1' in the box.

The end. [Phew]😓

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@F737NG,

Just a quick reply before I hit the sack. You appear to be doing it the same way as me but one country at a time for both SID and STAR is ridiculous. It will take days to do them all and how do you remember which you've done and which you haven't. There are a couple of hundred countries.

I have found a way of copying multiple txt files in multiple sub-folders into a single one using DOS commands in a CMD window. I'm going to try that tomorrow and see what the results are. It seems highly unlikely there will be duplicate filenames but you never know. How it affects AiController god knows.

The process to gather the information is very clever but it falls down when creating the output. And the AiMonitor program should be able to drill down two levels to reach the txt files. It can do it if the second level folder is named after an ICAO. Surely it just needs a tweak to make it useable because as it stands the amount of work is ridiculous.

And that's just for one AIRAC cycle. In a few months it needs doing again.

Share this post


Link to post
38 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have found a way of copying multiple txt files in multiple sub-folders into a single one using DOS commands in a CMD window. I'm going to try that tomorrow and see what the results are.

Please be so kind as to share the results, if you have a successful outcome.
It's such a chore to add (for me) the remaining 200 countries as it currently stands.


Bringing it back to the 'AIG plane behaviour', are we any closer to improved FDE?
Two things that bug me the most are:
1) Take-off speeds of about 250kts rotating off a runway until AIController takes over the departing aircraft for me and puts it on a SID.
2) Landing aircraft that would give their passengers whiplash at best, liquefy passenger insides at worst with the stopping distances.
 

Edited by F737NG

Share this post


Link to post

Firstly, here are the commands that should be entered into a CMD.EXE box with Admin privileges. I couldn't find a way of running them in a batch file.

cd\
cd /d "C:\AiController\Ray_SID_STAR"
for /r %d in (*) do copy "%d" "C:\AiController\SIDSTARS"

Ray_SID_STAR contains multiple folders for each country with txt files in each for SIDs and STARs.

It takes around 15 minutes to copy 182,940 files into SIDSTARS but there were no duplicates.

I fired up AiMonitor and pointed to C:\AiController\SIDSTARS in the Enhanced SID/STAR dialogue box. It accepted the paths.

I started AiController and it finished its initial scan in a minute or so. I then started Data Collection. PLEASE WAIT remained on the screen for a very long time whilst AiController built up close to 750,000 graph txt files. It's still running 20 mins later with multiple messages of "FAILED TO BUILD ENHANCED APPROACH DATA..." No Ai are being monitored.

I'm abandoning this as the program is clearly not suitable for scanning a large number of files. I'll stick to pointing it to mainly European countries and the US and Canada. Do we really need airport data for Afghanistan and Zimbabwe? 😁

It probably explains why you have to select individual countries rather than enmasse ones.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I've added 18 countries each for SID and STAR including Russia and the US. When Ai Controller runs it's reporting multiple warning messages "no landings at this ICAO. Run Force Update in AiMonitor."

I'm starting to think this program is only useful with a compatively small number of airports. I also have some scenery outside P3D and it doesn't like the normal path. It wants a UNC one but after entering that it didn't like it. That scenery is mesh anyway so doesn't need scanning.

I'm removing Russia and the US and using the supplied US ones. It's a pity really because if the program could create airport ICAO folders for each country there could be far more control.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've added 18 countries each for SID and STAR including Russia and the US. When Ai Controller runs it's reporting multiple warning messages "no landings at this ICAO. Run Force Update in AiMonitor."

Ignore the warnings on start-up. I receive plenty of those.

Once the program is ready and taking control of AI, it uses the converted SIDS and STARS at all of the major US airports that I have in my scenery library (all installed outside of the main P3D folder, but I haven't used the program at smaller airports yet).

I've selected ~35 countries that cover my most likely start points/destinations, but it is a flaw that it is such a laborious process to add new countries.

It's not perfect, but it does a much better job of controlling AI than any other program I've come across to date and infinitely better than the core P3D AI engine.
 

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Ignore the warnings on start-up. I receive plenty of those.

The problem is the Data Collection doesn't start until AIController has finished scanning those files. Yes, it's better than nothing but could really do with some enhancements to the country and airport selection

Share this post


Link to post

I’m back with the default supplied SID & STAR files. I decided to add a new folder for Spain. Under it I created a subfolder and named it LEBL and copied the LEBL txt files from my master folder holding the files for every country.

I added it to the list of folders to be scanned and then started P3D and located to Barcelona. I expected to see departing aircraft assigned to a SID but none were. They stayed under FSX (P3D) control. I can’t work out why.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

... I can’t work out why.

Ray,

Not sure, but maybe there's something to be learned in the original AIController thread: 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks Soren. I don't feel like reading through multiple pages but I did notice this...

" Ver 1.4 now reads taxi and runway data from installed default and add-on scenery (i.e., the "Enhanced" approach mode). "

The problem is from v3 onwards scenery can also be installed as an addon rather than an entry in scenery.cfg. That is the case with my Barcelona. There's no reason I can see why departures out of LEBL shouldn't be handled by AiController.

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/5/2019 at 5:47 PM, F737NG said:

I'm going to keep banging the drum for this until there's a fix / another solution:
https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=aicontroller14b.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search
 

Reading though the links supplied by Soren are people aware there is a v2 of this program? Here is the thread announcing it. The author never uploaded it to AvSim library!

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/498931-ai-controller-20-gate-to-gate-httpswwwavsimcomforumstopic498931-ai-controller-20-gate-to-gate-control-open-betacontrol-open-beta/

and here is the link to the program.  http://www.mediafire.com/file/gi5axjbq8447tjq/AIControllerV2.zip/file

It seems we may have been running an old version. I shall install v2 tomorrow and see how it works.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Reading though the links supplied by Soren are people aware there is a v2 of this program? Here is the thread announcing it. The author never uploaded it to AvSim library!

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/498931-ai-controller-20-gate-to-gate-httpswwwavsimcomforumstopic498931-ai-controller-20-gate-to-gate-control-open-betacontrol-open-beta/

and here is the link to the program.  http://www.mediafire.com/file/gi5axjbq8447tjq/AIControllerV2.zip/file

It seems we may have been running an old version. I shall install v2 tomorrow and see how it works.

 

Thanks for head up.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It seems we may have been running an old version. I shall install v2 tomorrow and see how it works.

2 hours ago, Nemo said:

Thanks for head up.

IIRC, there were numerous complaints about AI slewing all over the airfield after landing. v1.4b was the most stable version of the program I was lead to believe.

To circumnavigate the add-on.xml scenery issue, I use Lorby Addon Organiser to export my scenery library for any external tool.
It creates a temporary scenery.cfg file in the usual ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 location. I just ensure that all scenery entries are made active and re-save the temp file until I've finished running update of Runway and Taxi Data to create a new taxi_graph.txt file for AI Monitor to read. (I get a few error pop-up windows, but clicking through them eventually gives me a new file).
AI Controller spits out the usual list of errors at the start, but AI Monitor then gives me up-to-date AI handling on SIDS, STARS and jet routes.
 

Share this post


Link to post

@F737NG, I did wonder why it is desirable to control ground Ai when they seem to behave okay. I shall ponder whether the new version is required.

Thanks for reminding me about the export facility in Lorby’s Addon Organiser. I have used it in the past and had forgotten about it.

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, F737NG said:

I've finished running update of Runway and Taxi Data to create a new taxi_graph.txt file for AI Monitor to read.

Can anyone explain why AIcontroller or AIMonitor need Taxi data if, as I read, it only handles traffic once taken off and before landing?

Also, surely all it needs to know about Runways positions etc is in the Runways.xml file I think it asks for a pointer to. So, again, why is it scanning scenery files.

I have a problem with the latter point because I want to run AIController on a Networked PC, but many of my Sceneries are not in the P3D folder. I simply don't like them there, and it isn't advised either. So, even with using the Lorby tool to deal with Addon.xml added sceneries, there are many different folders on my P3D PC which would need some sort of Network path stated for them.

Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Can anyone explain why AIcontroller or AIMonitor need Taxi data if, as I read, it only handles traffic once taken off and before landing?

In 'Enhanced Mode' (where the program has been given SID STAR data to work with) it takes control of taxiing AI to assist with landing AI throughput. It needs then to know where the taxiways are to push the AI models along at an expedited rate rather than rely on the core P3D AI engine.

Under 'Settings', 'Program Config Paths', click on the 'Advanced Path Options' button in the top right of the new window. There are fields available to complete for networked PC addresses.

If you want more information, take a look at the ReadMe.pdf in the main AI Controller folder. The first page deals with running the program on a network using your utility programs.
Additionally, search on YouTube for 'AIController V2 Install and Basic Usage'. I believe that the basic elements are the same in v1.4b as shown in the v2 video.
 

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, F737NG said:

In 'Enhanced Mode' (where the program has been given SID STAR data to work with) it takes control of taxiing AI to assist with landing AI throughput. It needs then to know where the taxiways are to push the AI models along at an expedited rate rather than rely on the core P3D AI engine.

Really? That's good. I thought from what others have said it only handled them once in the air.

Mind you, I'd really much prefer that it used the Taxi and Runway data already gathered for such programs by MakeRwys.  Scanning all the scenery (again) just takes too long, and it makes in difficult on Networks and with P3D's Addon.xml methods.

10 hours ago, F737NG said:

If you want more information, take a look at the ReadMe.pdf in the main AI Controller folder. The first page deals with running the program on a network using your utility programs.
Additionally, search on YouTube for 'AIController V2 Install and Basic Usage'. I believe that the basic elements are the same in v1.4b as shown in the v2 video.

I've now downloaded V2 -- following earlier links I was trying 1.4B, where the ReadMe wasn't really that helpful.

I'll take a look later. I got so fed up with trying to sort V1.4B out that eventually I just deleted whole whole thing.

Thanks,
Pete

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I'm still using v1.4 and have made some progress but then hit a brick wall. I used Lorby's Addon Organizer to generate a scenery.cfg and copied it to E:\AiController, edited all necessary paths to UNC and pointed Ai Monitor to that location. It has successfully read all the scenery so I thought it would now be working.

But sat at 27L at EGLL and watching Ai Monitor it's not showing any info in the Pattern column so AI Controller is not controlling anything. Everything shows FSX rather than the SID or STAR. I can't figure out why. I have all the entries listed in Arrival and SID paths and they're all selected.

Share this post


Link to post

What I do in any test situation with FSX or P3D is to install the addon into a stock simulator, with stock locations. Work out what is go or no-go and sort out the issues. User programs can't write to some folders so we must ensure privileges are correct. In some situations we might have to provide a folder with Users group Modify Allow permission so a user program can write there. Run as Admin should also work but since this can fail depending on what else has been done to the Operating System and File Allocation Settings, it is better to provide permission when it is simple permission that is needed. I find 99% of problems stem from issues surrounding the locations of programs. When that's all confidently understood, only then do I start to rearrange the setup onto the network, private folders, or whatever is desired.

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, SteveW said:

only then do I start to rearrange the setup onto the network, private folders, or whatever is desired.

Do you do a simple copy of the whole AIController folder with all the generated data?

Do you use a scenery.cfg file generated by the Lorby program, so that Addons.xml added sceneries are included in the scan?

I certainly can't get it all sorted from a networked PC no matter what I try!

Pete

 

Share this post


Link to post

I've got it working again after an uninstall and reinstall. What was baffling at first was I missed the option on Ai Monitor to switch to P3D mode as it defaults to FSX.

Then after that I still had no controlling of Ai at EGLL even though I knew the entry for London airports was present in SIDs, STARs, Approaches and Finals under Settings. But those options were not selected. Selected them and restarted AiController and now Ai are being controlled.

My next task is to sort out Madrid as the Ai don't always take-off.

Pete, can't you just share all the folders on your PC that are outside of P3D? Even though I have far fewer airports the principle remains the same. Use Lorby's Addon program to generate a scenery.cfg and copy it to the main AiController folder and point to it instead of the usual location of ProgramData\LM\P3Dv4. Edit it to include the full UNC path and Bob's your uncle! :wink:

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now