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AIG plane behavior question

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've got it working again after an uninstall and reinstall. What was baffling at first was I missed the option on Ai Monitor to switch to P3D mode as it defaults to FSX.

Well, I can't make much of the setting up work at all on the Networked PC, no matter what I do. So I tried installing it all and running the setting up and scanning on the P3D PC. (First temporarily replacing my SCENERY.CFG file by the one generated by the Lorby tool so that all the Addon.xml sceneries are included).

But it doesn't work there either.  Despite replacing all of the default (supplied) SID STAR data pointers in the AIController.INI file, as soon as I start the taxi route scan they are all replaced again by the default list. I don't want that!

I successfully use the SID STAR converter to generate all the SID STAR data for "greater" Europe (all I require) and replaced the list in both AIController.ini and AIControllerList.txt, but as soon as I start the scan the former list is replaced by the 'default' (even though those folders have been deleted!). I've no idea where it gets this list from, nor do I understand why it won't allow an alternative list!

I've not uninstalled it yet, but I'm not going to try again until someone can explain what I'm doing wrong. I'd like this to work as it sounds very good, it's just too frustrating trying to set it up 😞  I could have been flying instead!

Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

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I'm positioned at Madrid LEMD monitoring Ai. Ai Monitor is showing all inbounds as Generic despite all the required files residing in Spanish Airports\LEMD and active.

The SIDs appear to be okay so this is baffling. The SID/STAR files were copied from the relevant folder created by the SID/STAR Converter program.

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1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I'm positioned at Madrid LEMD monitoring Ai. Ai Monitor is showing all inbounds as Generic despite all the required files residing in Spanish Airports\LEMD and active.

The SIDs appear to be okay so this is baffling. The SID/STAR files were copied from the relevant folder created by the SID/STAR Converter program.

Just copying the files doesn't appear to change anything! Check the AIController.log.  Here it shows that it is only scanning the supplied folders (which I've actually deleted).

It's a complete no-go for me. Giving up for now.

Pete

 

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4 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Well, I can't make much of the setting up work at all on the Networked PC, no matter what I do. So I tried installing it all and running the setting up and scanning on the P3D PC. (First temporarily replacing my SCENERY.CFG file by the one generated by the Lorby tool so that all the Addon.xml sceneries are included).

But it doesn't work either.  Despite replacing all of the default (supplied) SID STAR data pointers in the AIController.INI file as soon as I start the taxi route scan they are all replaced again by the default list. I don't want that! I successfully use the SID STAR converter to generate all the SID STAR data for "greater" Europe (all I require) and replaced the list in both AIController.ini and AIControllerList.txt, but as soon as I start the scan the former list is replaced by the 'default' (even though those folders have been deleted!). I can't see where it gets them from nor why it won't allow an alternative list!

I've not uninstalled it yet, but I'm not going to try againb until someone can explain what I'm doing wrong. I'd like this to work as it sounds very good, it's just so frustrating setting it up 😞  I could have been flying instead!

Pete

 

Pete, you need to open Ai Monitor and choose Settings. The 4th entry down is SIDs, STARs Approaches....  Select that and highlight all and choose Remove all Paths. Then add your own or just leave London Metro EGCC in both SID and STAR boxes. See how that goes.

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17 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Do you do a simple copy of the whole AIController folder with all the generated data?

Do you use a scenery.cfg file generated by the Lorby program, so that Addons.xml added sceneries are included in the scan?

I certainly can't get it all sorted from a networked PC no matter what I try!

Pete

 

Any readable data should work OK over on a network drive in that it can be mapped to what you need on the local system. The Users add-ons folder is a private folder, setting up networking with the popup for user credentials on the remote node, and agree to save that password that way, it may be lost on a Windows update and have to be reset.

The program looks at the scenery so it may be counter productive when networked given the Windows caching locally. Scenery usually only need be scanned once after any changes. Increases in time to start the sim are down to the structure of addon airports and the read through of the files ascertaining airports available in the scenery. What I'm saying is adding scenery might alter the behaviour to the stock sim in terms of taxiway effectiveness along with other possible conditions arising.

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@F737NG, I've got things working fine now. Just one area I'm not sure about. When I add a new into the SID/STAR dialogue box I have to do it for SID and STAR. There is an Apply button. When it's pressed it scans the Ai files and the scenery.cfg. Does this need doing for both SID and STAR or will one action work?

For those running via a network I copied my scener.cfg to the AiController folder and pointed AiMonitor to it rather than the ProgramData\LM\P3Dv4 folder as that file does not contain add-on scenery.

In the supplied data English airports were contained in their own subfolders by ICAO. But if you stick to that method it means a new entry for each airport. Instead I'm going to have a folder for each country and put all the txt files into that. Would you expect it to impact on performance of AiController or AiMonitor?

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16 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@F737NG, I've got things working fine now. Just one area I'm not sure about. When I add a new into the SID/STAR dialogue box I have to do it for SID and STAR. There is an Apply button. When it's pressed it scans the Ai files and the scenery.cfg. Does this need doing for both SID and STAR or will one action work?

Good to hear. Sometimes a little persistence is worth all of the effort.
Pressing just one of the apply buttons is sufficient to generate the SIDSTAR file address lookup in the file AIControllerList.txt. 

23 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

In the supplied data English airports were contained in their own subfolders by ICAO. But if you stick to that method it means a new entry for each airport. Instead I'm going to have a folder for each country and put all the txt files into that. Would you expect it to impact on performance of AiController or AiMonitor?

My generated data from the PMDG source nav data only separates down to country level.
I wouldn't worry about creating individual airport folders.

If it wasn't so time-consuming to retrieve the text files from each country folder, I'd have just two folders. One would consolidate all of the SIDS and the other all of the STARS and be done.
I see no reason why it couldn't be done like that. I just can't face copying files from one set of folders into another every time I update the Nav Cycle data.
 

2 hours ago, SteveW said:

Scenery usually only need be scanned once after any changes. Increases in time to start the sim are down to the structure of addon airports and the read through of the files ascertaining airports available in the scenery. What I'm saying is adding scenery might alter the behaviour to the stock sim in terms of taxiway effectiveness along with other possible conditions arising.

The program asks if you want to force an update of the taxi_graph.txt whenever it detects a change in the scenery.cfg to keep it up-to-date with whatever installed scenery is active. 
A necessary annoyance.

It's definitely a work around / hack to create new taxiway data rather than rely on the source AFCAD data. But then the developer probably needed one simple text file for the program to read rather than look at hundreds of various scenery AFCADs, scattered all over the place to extract the necessary data.
Tbf, I haven't (yet) seen AI get stuck head-on on a taxiway.


It's quite a faff to get up and running to it's maximum potential, but it's the best controller of AI separation I've come across to date.
 

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9 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Good to hear. Sometimes a little persistence is worth all of the effort.
Pressing just one of the apply buttons is sufficient to generate the SIDSTAR file address lookup in the file AIControllerList.txt. 

My generated data from the PMDG source nav data only separates down to country level.
I wouldn't worry about creating individual airport folders.

If it wasn't so time-consuming to retrieve the text files from each country folder, I'd have just two folders. One would consolidate all of the SIDS and the other all of the STARS and be done.
I see no reason why it couldn't be done like that. I just can't face copying files from one set of folders into another every time I update the Nav Cycle data.

I was speaking to Pete yesterday saying I’d invested so much time into trying to get it to work I’d be annoyed with myself if I gave up now. A little persistence paid dividends as the mistakes were right in front of me and were eventually spotted and corrected.

Thanks for confirming the Apply action only needs doing once. The interface could do with a tweak really.

I did try putting everything into one folder but AiController took an age to run as it’s scanning for loads of airports. I’m only going to have country folders for my 3rd party airports. I rarely fly into default ones anyway.

I haven’t thought about an AIRAC update and the work involved. SIDS and STARs don’t change that often. EGCC have been the same for a few years now. It’s usually when runway designators change so perhaps twice a year will suffice. A batch file should make the copying easier especially with just one folder per country.

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@F737NG, actually it’s not the copying of files that’s the problem It’s running the SID/STAR converter program to generate the files that is a pain as it takes around 1.5hrs.

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AFAIK the dev has abandoned his project, maybe someone can resume his work. I also have much hope in the project from @fs1

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The developer of Ai Controller is Roland Foster and his email is AIController2_at_gmail_dot_com

I'm sure he would answer any questions. Perhaps he's had a change in personal circumstances rather than having abanoned what is a very good program.

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2 hours ago, F737NG said:

The program asks if you want to force an update of the taxi_graph.txt whenever it detects a change in the scenery.cfg to keep it up-to-date with whatever installed scenery is active. 

A necessary annoyance.

It's definitely a work around / hack to create new taxiway data rather than rely on the source AFCAD data. But then the developer probably needed one simple text file for the program to read rather than look at hundreds of various scenery AFCADs, scattered all over the place to extract the necessary data.
 

It's one way to go if only certain data is required. But reading of all the actual scenery files, is super quick anyway. Generally scenery is stable so a rescan only need be done occasionally. Some addon scenery can change depending on season, things like that. Those issues can be addressed in a different way.

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2 hours ago, JoeFackel said:

AFAIK the dev has abandoned his project, maybe someone can resume his work. I also have much hope in the project from @fs1

Simbol is working on a AI management program like this but its certainly not an easy task so may be a while.  

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The scanning for subset data is going to save time if for example the result data is read over the network. That's quick these days, but I'm not so sure this kind of program is better to network. The main work is probably best done on the same PC. Assign an exe a couple of free cores or cores of the background tasks, to keep it off the cores with the main tasks. Let Windows caching do the work..

Edited by SteveW

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10 minutes ago, jason99vmi said:

Simbol is working on a AI management program like this but its certainly not an easy task so may be a while.  

Clearly it's not easy as no-one in my eyes has beaten a 4-year old, freeware program that is no longer supported.

My dream is to see a continuous stream of 4 or 5 aircraft on long finals at dusk / night, with appropriate spacing between them, land and taxi off the runway without causing issues for the following aircraft.
Even better would be for some departures to be slotted in for a 'behind landing [type], line-up runway XX, behind,...' instruction while a landed aeroplane is still on the active.

Help us, @simbol. You're our only hope (in P3D).
 

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It's not a difficult task, watch IF's AI Buddy. The problem is time.

aibuddy1.jpg

Edited by SteveW

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11 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Help us, @simbol. You're our only hope (in P3D).

I will.. I am almost there releasing AILRP, then news about controlling AI to achieve what you described and what my plans are will be available.

Regards,

Simbol 

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21 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Clearly it's not easy as no-one in my eyes has beaten a 4-year old, freeware program that is no longer supported.

My dream is to see a continuous stream of 4 or 5 aircraft on long finals at dusk / night, with appropriate spacing between them, land and taxi off the runway without causing issues for the following aircraft.
Even better would be for some departures to be slotted in for a 'behind landing [type], line-up runway XX, behind,...' instruction while a landed aeroplane is still on the active.

Help us, @simbol. You're our only hope (in P3D).
 

We are working on an overhaul of the ATC/AI default system.

The addon will feature: correct airport/air AI spacing, AI holds for default ATC, delays, customizable assignment of runwyas, among others. The project is in development

Edited by fs1
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1 minute ago, simbol said:

I will.. I am almost there releasing AILRP, then news about controlling AI to achieve what you described and what my plans are will be available.

Soon with AI control, rather than 'soon™'? None of us are getting any younger...😄
Looking forward to hearing what will be coming our way.

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32 minutes ago, simbol said:

I will.. I am almost there releasing AILRP, then news about controlling AI to achieve what you described and what my plans are will be available.

Regards,

Simbol 

Didn't i read anywhere you're in touch with fs1 and AIG to get all your AI magic together?

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12 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

Didn't i read anywhere you're in touch with fs1 and AIG to get all your AI magic together?

I am not in touch with FS1 for such things, instead I am in direct contact with LM developers and I am requesting constantly more improvements to the P3D SDK which would allow better control of AI without the use of hacks or unsupported / undocumented solutions that could potentially affect the stability of the simulator.

However I am very close to Kay and Chris (Developers of AIGM-OCI), we do share lots of information, we skype and chat very often in order to make our individual products compatible and better and it is not uncommon for us to share source code either, we do help each other the best way possible :wink:.

Kind Regards,
Simbol

Edited by simbol
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The more the merrier.

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Incidentally, IF traffic is already totally compatible with those programs. The interjection of traffic and resume is doable without hacks, needs thinking outside the box. I'm not putting IF to work on that, but it has been on the list for a long time. Instead I'm looking into flight assist and accessibility for now.

Edited by SteveW
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28 minutes ago, simbol said:

I am not in touch with FS1 for such things, instead I am in direct contact with LM developers and I am requesting constantly more improvements to the P3D SDK which would allow better control of AI without the use of hacks or unsupported / undocumented solutions that could potentially affect the stability of the simulator.

However I am very close to Kay and Chris (Developers of AIGM-OCI), we do share lots of information, we skype and chat very often in order to make our individual products compatible and better and it is not uncommon for us to share source code either, we do help each other the best way possible :wink:.

Kind Regards,
Simbol

Thats great because the injection of AI into the sim around high traffic areas like London, NYC, LA, Chicago, etc are causing the sim to stutter while the sim deletes and adds aircraft in the reality bubble.  I love AI but stability would be a great perk if we can get both.   Thanks!

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These programs scan the AI around and react to that and introduce new behaviour.

These transactions on the loopback are more efficient than across the network to a node.

Use programs that display something, on another node if we prefer.

Those addon programs that do a lot, in the background. Perhaps a traffic exe, put those on at least two cores away from the primary cores of the simulator.

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