Skywolf

PMDG and Boeing Manuals (Gone) due to License issue

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Hey,

Does anyone know what manuals are missing from 777, 747 and DC6 latest installers?  Apparently one has to find the manuals online now (official support answer - oh man - trust me this is now a gray area).  Boeing changed the licensing, and though there was no announcement from PMDG about this.  If you have your old installers - keep them as they have all the manuals.

I know 737 lost all the manuals - only comes intro and 2 tutorials.

Thanks

 

Honestly this is super annoying when spending big bucks on these addons to have this happen.

   

Edited by Skywolf

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The links to the manuals are in the Ops Center, if those are the manuals you refer to. 

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Yep, I just checked on my side, they are there.

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Actually if you guys download the newest installers (for example - download today and do a clean install) from the site and do a clean install in a sim (for example your sim should not have PMDG directory - let the installer create it - hence the lack of documents will be noticed) - you will see 737 does not have the manuals (even posted a ticket and got an official response).

Trying to figure out what manuals are missing from 777,747 and Dc6

Edited by Skywolf

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Interesting. I did a clean install using the newest installers in August and have all the manuals (FCOM1, FCOM2, FCTM and QRH for the 737; FCOM and QRH for the 747; FCOM and QRH for the 747-8; FCOM1, FCOM2, FCTM and QRH for the 777 - all P3Dv4).

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I do have all the manuals as well for all 737 747 777

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1 hour ago, voske said:

Interesting. I did a clean install using the newest installers in August and have all the manuals (FCOM1, FCOM2, FCTM and QRH for the 737; FCOM and QRH for the 747; FCOM and QRH for the 747-8; FCOM1, FCOM2, FCTM and QRH for the 777 - all P3Dv4).

I will check the p3d installer and see if the manuals are in there.  The FSX PMDG 737 did not have the manuals.  Now it could be removed from the FSX version.

Though I did receive the official word from pmdg though about Boeing changing the license

Edited by Skywolf

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Yikes! 

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The original 747-400 version 1 had a manual written by PMDG which you could print of, but now you see the Boeing manual which you are not allowed to print a copy of due to copyright.  

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48 minutes ago, rjfry said:

The original 747-400 version 1 had a manual written by PMDG which you could print of, but now you see the Boeing manual which you are not allowed to print a copy of due to copyright.  

Aaaaaannd if you Delete it, redownload newest installer and install, those non printable manuals are now non viewable, non existent.

.....it’s ok though..PMDG..no need to announce anything...

You can just go ahead and lower the price now...oh, um, hold on, no, that won’t happen, will it....

we payed for something that was a whole product and now it is not because half the product is missing.

....you need to search the web... 😂😂😂😂

Buys a Ford...Ford recall vehicle. They remove steering wheel. Give vehicles back.

How am I supposed to drive it?

pmdg’s answer...go looking in the scrap yards for another one.

”but when I bought the vehicle it had a steering wheel, and your update removed it, can I get some compensation for my time required to find a new one? “

😡NO!

GO AWAY!

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Simply unacceptable all around. Particularly having removed them from the installers with no announcement.

One nice thing about the official PMDG forums moving off Avsim is that we can now be honest about stuff like this.

James

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50 minutes ago, MaDDogz said:

Aaaaaannd if you Delete it, redownload newest installer and install, those non printable manuals are now non viewable, non existent.

.....it’s ok though..PMDG..no need to announce anything...

You can just go ahead and lower the price now...oh, um, hold on, no, that won’t happen, will it....

we payed for something that was a whole product and now it is not because half the product is missing.

....you need to search the web... 😂😂😂😂

Buys a Ford...Ford recall vehicle. They remove steering wheel. Give vehicles back.

How am I supposed to drive it?

pmdg’s answer...go looking in the scrap yards for another one.

”but when I bought the vehicle it had a steering wheel, and your update removed it, can I get some compensation for my time required to find a new one? “

😡NO!

GO AWAY!

I am one of the lucky ones then Boeing flight operation manual 747-400 1606 pages 747-8 1806 pages. 

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I too have all the manuals for the 737, 747 and 777. I don't really understand what people are ranting about. Is it because, the manuals are 'missing' from the FSX versions?!

Have you considered posting this in the PMDG forums? 🙂

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2 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

I too have all the manuals for the 737, 747 and 777. I don't really understand what people are ranting about. Is it because, the manuals are 'missing' from the FSX versions?!

Have you considered posting this in the PMDG forums? 🙂

Hi,

It has been posted in their forums by few other users also - but for some reason those threads got zero traction.  It was posted here also when these were official (quick search will reveal).  It always ended up with phrase - submit ticket to them.

 

These things happen - it is just that official announcement would have been great - oh well there is youtube/forums (avsim & official pmdg), Chuck's guide to learn from.

Edited by Skywolf

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3 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

I too have all the manuals for the 737, 747 and 777. I don't really understand what people are ranting about. Is it because, the manuals are 'missing' from the FSX versions?!

Have you considered posting this in the PMDG forums? 🙂

apparently  users  that install  the latest  or  have  bought  the  737  77 747   recently wont have  the  manual  only  if  you had  purchased   the  addons  a long  time  ago   as  sky  wolf  has  mentioned  all to do  with licencing

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8 hours ago, pete_auau said:

apparently  users  that install  the latest  or  have  bought  the  737  77 747   recently wont have  the  manual  only  if  you had  purchased   the  addons  a long  time  ago   as  sky  wolf  has  mentioned  all to do  with licencing

I don't see why the 747 is on it`s way to the scrap yard.

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On 9/8/2019 at 9:56 AM, honanhal said:

Simply unacceptable all around. Particularly having removed them from the installers with no announcement.

One nice thing about the official PMDG forums moving off Avsim is that we can now be honest about stuff like this.

James

If the document licence agreement has expired with Boeing, as I heard it has, then PMDG had no choice but to do this. What’s unacceptable Is PMDG’s advice to search the net for dodgy copies of manuals.

For existing users the answer is to back the manuals up in case you ever need to download a new installer from the server.  New buyers will lose out. Tough luck for them - unless the licence is renewed.

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35 minutes ago, kevinh said:

If the document licence agreement has expired with Boeing, as I heard it has, then PMDG had no choice but to do this.

The thing is, they do have choices. Couple of choices they could have made: renegotiate the license agreement with Boeing, or reduce the product price to reflect the loss of the manuals. They didn’t choose either of those. (They also chose not to inform their customers in advance or, better yet, give them a forthright explanation for exactly why this was happening.)

What they’ve apparently done instead is to encourage customers with a wink and a nod to find unlicensed manuals online, which as you point out manages to be both unethical and half-assed customer service at the same time.

The fact that their company name is literally “Precision Manuals” is frankly a little too on the nose for my taste...

James

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Perhaps they should rename the company to Design Group 😈

Dave.

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11 hours ago, honanhal said:

The thing is, they do have choices. Couple of choices they could have made: renegotiate the license agreement with Boeing, or reduce the product price to reflect the loss of the manuals. They didn’t choose either of those. (They also chose not to inform their customers in advance or, better yet, give them a forthright explanation for exactly why this was happening.)

What they’ve apparently done instead is to encourage customers with a wink and a nod to find unlicensed manuals online, which as you point out manages to be both unethical and half-assed customer service at the same time.

The fact that their company name is literally “Precision Manuals” is frankly a little too on the nose for my taste...

James

I guess  you know  the  ins  and  outs  of  how  pdmg   had their  agreement  with Boeing

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17 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

I guess  you know  the  ins  and  outs  of  how  pdmg   had their  agreement  with Boeing

What about the fact the way they carry themselves through this.

what about the fact they chose to be sly about the missing manuals.

what about the fact they  still decide to charge us full price for a product that’s  only half of what it used to be.

what about the fact they have a reputation of developing aircraft by the manual, only not to include a manual..🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

What about the fact they are telling people to find manuals on the internet.....like really?

If your friend bought say the 777 last year, then you buy it today, and there is no manuals like your friend has....but you both payed $130, you’ll be absolutely fine and dandy with that, would you?

No.

No you wouldn’t be.

don't try and defend it, because you wouldn’t be happy about it, period.

so there’s a little more to it than your  snarky fan bio comment, Pete.

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So good to see such a reasoned discussion☹️

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On 9/11/2019 at 9:18 PM, honanhal said:

The thing is, they do have choices. Couple of choices they could have made: renegotiate the license agreement with Boeing, or reduce the product price to reflect the loss of the manuals. They didn’t choose either of those. (They also chose not to inform their customers in advance or, better yet, give them a forthright explanation for exactly why this was happening.)

What they’ve apparently done instead is to encourage customers with a wink and a nod to find unlicensed manuals online, which as you point out manages to be both unethical and half-assed customer service at the same time.

The fact that their company name is literally “Precision Manuals” is frankly a little too on the nose for my taste...

James

I believe they are trying to get a new agreement in place, but in the meantime they have no choice but to stop distributing the manuals. I have direct experience of negotiating data licences with Boeing and believe me it is not a simple process. Just when you think you've satisified all their demands another set of requirements is presented. I don't normally sympathise with PMDG's problems but in this case a share their pain.

There is some irony that the company name refers to manuals (which they developed), but saying this is "on the nose" implies there is something suspicious about what PMDG have done. What exactly?

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2 hours ago, kevinh said:

I believe they are trying to get a new agreement in place, but in the meantime they have no choice but to stop distributing the manuals. I have direct experience of negotiating data licences with Boeing and believe me it is not a simple process. Just when you think you've satisified all their demands another set of requirements is presented. I don't normally sympathise with PMDG's problems but in this case a share their pain.

There is some irony that the company name refers to manuals (which they developed), but saying this is "on the nose" implies there is something suspicious about what PMDG have done. What exactly?

exactly users  don't  know  what is  going  on  between  pmdg and  Boeing

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