8 hours ago, pete_auau said:

apparently  users  that install  the latest  or  have  bought  the  737  77 747   recently wont have  the  manual  only  if  you had  purchased   the  addons  a long  time  ago   as  sky  wolf  has  mentioned  all to do  with licencing

I don't see why the 747 is on it`s way to the scrap yard.

Precision manuals.....hold on 😄

On 9/8/2019 at 9:56 AM, honanhal said:

Simply unacceptable all around. Particularly having removed them from the installers with no announcement.

One nice thing about the official PMDG forums moving off Avsim is that we can now be honest about stuff like this.

James

If the document licence agreement has expired with Boeing, as I heard it has, then PMDG had no choice but to do this. What’s unacceptable Is PMDG’s advice to search the net for dodgy copies of manuals.

For existing users the answer is to back the manuals up in case you ever need to download a new installer from the server.  New buyers will lose out. Tough luck for them - unless the licence is renewed.

35 minutes ago, kevinh said:

If the document licence agreement has expired with Boeing, as I heard it has, then PMDG had no choice but to do this.

The thing is, they do have choices. Couple of choices they could have made: renegotiate the license agreement with Boeing, or reduce the product price to reflect the loss of the manuals. They didn’t choose either of those. (They also chose not to inform their customers in advance or, better yet, give them a forthright explanation for exactly why this was happening.)

What they’ve apparently done instead is to encourage customers with a wink and a nod to find unlicensed manuals online, which as you point out manages to be both unethical and half-assed customer service at the same time.

The fact that their company name is literally “Precision Manuals” is frankly a little too on the nose for my taste...

James

Perhaps they should rename the company to Design Group 😈

Dave.

11 hours ago, honanhal said:

The thing is, they do have choices. Couple of choices they could have made: renegotiate the license agreement with Boeing, or reduce the product price to reflect the loss of the manuals. They didn’t choose either of those. (They also chose not to inform their customers in advance or, better yet, give them a forthright explanation for exactly why this was happening.)

What they’ve apparently done instead is to encourage customers with a wink and a nod to find unlicensed manuals online, which as you point out manages to be both unethical and half-assed customer service at the same time.

The fact that their company name is literally “Precision Manuals” is frankly a little too on the nose for my taste...

James

I guess  you know  the  ins  and  outs  of  how  pdmg   had their  agreement  with Boeing

17 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

I guess  you know  the  ins  and  outs  of  how  pdmg   had their  agreement  with Boeing

What about the fact the way they carry themselves through this.

what about the fact they chose to be sly about the missing manuals.

what about the fact they  still decide to charge us full price for a product that’s  only half of what it used to be.

what about the fact they have a reputation of developing aircraft by the manual, only not to include a manual..🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

What about the fact they are telling people to find manuals on the internet.....like really?

If your friend bought say the 777 last year, then you buy it today, and there is no manuals like your friend has....but you both payed $130, you’ll be absolutely fine and dandy with that, would you?

No.

No you wouldn’t be.

don't try and defend it, because you wouldn’t be happy about it, period.

so there’s a little more to it than your  snarky fan bio comment, Pete.

On 9/11/2019 at 9:18 PM, honanhal said:

The thing is, they do have choices. Couple of choices they could have made: renegotiate the license agreement with Boeing, or reduce the product price to reflect the loss of the manuals. They didn’t choose either of those. (They also chose not to inform their customers in advance or, better yet, give them a forthright explanation for exactly why this was happening.)

What they’ve apparently done instead is to encourage customers with a wink and a nod to find unlicensed manuals online, which as you point out manages to be both unethical and half-assed customer service at the same time.

The fact that their company name is literally “Precision Manuals” is frankly a little too on the nose for my taste...

James

I believe they are trying to get a new agreement in place, but in the meantime they have no choice but to stop distributing the manuals. I have direct experience of negotiating data licences with Boeing and believe me it is not a simple process. Just when you think you've satisified all their demands another set of requirements is presented. I don't normally sympathise with PMDG's problems but in this case a share their pain.

There is some irony that the company name refers to manuals (which they developed), but saying this is "on the nose" implies there is something suspicious about what PMDG have done. What exactly?

2 hours ago, kevinh said:

I believe they are trying to get a new agreement in place, but in the meantime they have no choice but to stop distributing the manuals. I have direct experience of negotiating data licences with Boeing and believe me it is not a simple process. Just when you think you've satisified all their demands another set of requirements is presented. I don't normally sympathise with PMDG's problems but in this case a share their pain.

There is some irony that the company name refers to manuals (which they developed), but saying this is "on the nose" implies there is something suspicious about what PMDG have done. What exactly?

exactly users  don't  know  what is  going  on  between  pmdg and  Boeing

No idea what really is happening

Edited September 13, 20196 yr by Skywolf

On 9/13/2019 at 12:11 AM, kevinh said:

There is some irony that the company name refers to manuals (which they developed), but saying this is "on the nose" implies there is something suspicious about what PMDG have done. What exactly?

Sorry just saw this — to say something is “on the nose” means it’s too perfect, unsubtle, “you can’t make this stuff up.” Irony, like you said. Nothing to do with anything being suspicious. Maybe the phrase is a regionalism. I honestly don’t know.

James

On 9/9/2019 at 2:42 AM, MaDDogz said:

Precision manuals.....hold on 😄

 

Edited October 10, 20196 yr by Avwriter

On 9/9/2019 at 2:42 AM, MaDDogz said:

Precision manuals.....hold on 😄

 

Edited October 10, 20196 yr by Avwriter

On 9/9/2019 at 2:42 AM, MaDDogz said:

Precision manuals.....hold on 😄

 

Edited October 10, 20196 yr by Avwriter

On 9/9/2019 at 2:42 AM, MaDDogz said:

Precision manuals.....hold on 😄

Ha ha.  Technically, though, it is no longer Precision Manuals Development Group. Their name is now officially, just PMDG, kind of like how Federal Express officially became FedEx a while back.