Pushback sequence answers

[Kimp1lot 5]

Wow guys I didn't know we were playing semantics here... You did as well deny "good engine start" by the way but I don't wanna fight over this... https://imgur.com/a/iZg42oa

You don't seem to get my point. I'm not saying you don't know when engines are started IRL, I'm saying that you have absolutely no way of knowing when I, UGCX user, start my engines in the sim.

11 minutes ago, 30K said:

Also, we (ramper) say that after I removed the tow bar and pin etc. This is the indication and confirmation for the crew that all equipment is clear and I'm ready to disconnect. 

 

 

Exactly my point...

I did suggest to move it further away in the flow because this comes after I select "Brakes set", it doesn't come when I select "You're cleared to disconnect".

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Kimp1lot

[30K 72]

Well, I'm not fighting here. You say somebody said positive engine start, and I say mmh that is weird because I did not say that. That is no semantic in my opinion as we're trying to figure out if something is wrong maybe?

If a car is blue and you say "is it red?" I'd happily disagree and say no its blue. A script is a script, and if you hear positive engine start it either can't be ours or something is not right, I'm trying to help you here :). 

Yes, as mentioned in one post above, after second thought I understood what you meant. And as I mentioned, we'll adjust the flows accordingly, but from IRL experience I can say, that you should have all engines running by the time the push is done.

Edited September 21, 2019 by 30K

[keight 26]

58 minutes ago, 30K said:

but from IRL experience I can say, that you should have all engines running by the time the push is done.

not necessarily. engines might not be started during push until reaching startup point. or start one engine during push and the second one after push's done. or simply when 4 engines are staring one by one (e.g manual start on 747) and a pb route is short.

Edited September 21, 2019 by keight

[byork 2,258]

I'm lost in all this 🙂

We need to see a video 🙂
 

[30K 72]

Yes that's what I said as well. But I had to keep it generic. I've told Bryan wee need more dialogue but yeah, it's in the update. 

8 hours ago, keight said:

not necessarily. engines might not be started during push until reaching startup point. or start one engine during push and the second one after push's done. or simply when 4 engines are staring one by one (e.g manual start on 747) and a pb route is short.

Yep you are right but please see above. We had to do it so it works like 95% of the time.

But again I will adjust the dialogue when the program allows me to do so. 🙂

[Kimp1lot 5]

13 hours ago, byork said:

I'm lost in all this 🙂

We need to see a video 🙂
 

I don't understand why you need to see a video ? You surely should know how your software is working (no offense, I cannot record anyway due to my PC specs without having too few FPS). I'll try to re-explain one time what I think is wrong/could be improved.

In your software:

During the pushback:
- Ground will clear you for engine start.

When the pushback is completed :
- GROUND requests the COCKPIT to set the parking brake.
- User can select "Brakes set".

If he does:
- GROUND says "Roger".
- GROUND disconnects bypass pin and the tug driver goes off. Remaining crew will then, without being cleared by the user, by itself, say something like "Tug disconnected, good engine start, see you and the left/right hand side for the clear signal with the pin, have a good flight".
- User can select "Disconnect ground crew and go to hand signals".
- GROUND will answer "Roger and have a safe flight".

---------------------------------
What I think is wrong/could be improved :

1. An option could be added for the user to add the number of engines of the aircraft.

Then, during pushback : Randomly, or if SOP in specific countries, the crew could sometimes clear separately the engines start (cleared to start 1, cleared to start 2 / cleared to start 1 and 2, cleared to start 3 and 4 etc...).

(I understand it's done differently by each ground crew in each country, just an extra suggestion to put at the bottom of the TO-DO list if it's interesting).

2. When the pushback is completed and user has ticked "Brakes set" I think that :

- GROUND crew connected to intercom should standby (by standby I mean not saying that he will see us on the left/right hand side) because by then we didn't technically clear him to disconnect.

I think it should be COCKPIT duty to release him.

- The script saying "Tug disconnected, good engine start, see you and the left/right hand side for the clear signal with the pin, have a good flight" should be triggered by the user action "Disconnect ground crew and go to hand signals".

When COCKPIT is satisfied, he releases the remaining GROUND crew to hand signals.

Maybe I have a misconception of how it's done, just a suggestion, but seems like many agree with me when I talked about this 🙂 (outside this forum).
 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Kimp1lot

[30K 72]

3 hours ago, Kimp1lot said:

1. An option could be added for the user to add the number of engines of the aircraft.

Then, during pushback : Randomly, or if SOP in specific countries, the crew could sometimes clear separately the engines start (cleared to start 1, cleared to start 2 / cleared to start 1 and 2, cleared to start 3 and 4 etc...).

(I understand it's done differently by each ground crew in each country, just an extra suggestion to put at the bottom of the TO-DO list if it's interesting).

Already on the TO-DO. Said the same thing on the internal forum. The groundwork is already done, I've recorded the sounds already! (Cleared to start number 2 for example)

 

3 hours ago, Kimp1lot said:

2. When the pushback is completed and user has ticked "Brakes set" I think that :

- GROUND crew connected to intercom should standby (by standby I mean not saying that he will see us on the left/right hand side) because by then we didn't technically clear him to disconnect.

I think it should be COCKPIT duty to release him.

It is the cockpit duty already. I did it the most realistic way the current state allowed me to record. Usually IRL, I tell them to set the brakes; after that, I remove the equipment. Frequently, while I'm at it, the cockpit already tells me I'm cleared to disconnect, so I tell them "I call you back".

Something I really look forward to seeing implemented. If the user is to fast, we'll advise the "call you back". 

After the equipment etc. is removed, I call them again say the "equipment is removed and yada yada yada" and thus signal "I'm done here". If anything is not okay or something like that they tell me; alright understood but please stand by until we... or similar.

That is not really possible at this time, and as such, I made it generic so that it works like 95% of all the time. 

3 hours ago, Kimp1lot said:

Maybe I have a misconception of how it's done, just a suggestion, but seems like many agree with me when I talked about this 🙂 (outside this forum).

Can you give me a link, please? Also, do these people have any real-life experience?

The reason I'm asking is that; I recorded the sound the "best", or better, most realistic, way possible in the boundaries of the current software. My ultimate goal is to make it as "real as it can possibly get" and as such, I made tons of feature requests on the private beta forum. Not all made it into V1. That's Bryans decision, not mine. I have absolutely no problems with suggestions, but only, when they come from somebody with appropriate experience. If tomorrow somebody posts: Hey I think that XXX in german would be a better translation for XXX in English, and this person speaks both languages fluently, well I'm happy to change it, after a quick discussion because that's the quirk with words and synonyms.

If you have done countless pushbacks in your life, then we can discuss it. I always look forward to meeting people and talk to them from all over the world. That's one of the reasons I'm engaged in aviation and global freight forwarding.

One more thing though; What I wonder is that none of all the "experts" out there haven't yet said anything about the tow bar connection and removing process. Actually quite funny as this was my main concern, because of reasons obvious to anybody with IRL experience.

Edited September 22, 2019 by 30K

[keight 26]

would it be possible to implement pushback sequence initiation (besides menu and hotkey) by voice command like "ground please prepare the aircraft for pushback"?

[byork 2,258]

It may be possible to do such a thing.

Why not just use the hotkey?

[keight 26]

the answer is immersion 🙂

[byork 2,258]

19 minutes ago, keight said:

the answer is immersion 🙂

Fair enough, we'll add it to our list.