VR Inclusion in MSFS

[zachrussell 12]

I have to say a big part of what got me excited about this next generation sim, was imagining myself fully immersed in all it has to offer through the lens of a VR headset. 

For me VR is the future of flight simming,  I appreciate to an extent its still in its infancy. However I believe it only has room to grow and develop alongside a sim such as this. 

I am very disappointed to not see it implemented from the start.

Both go hand in hand to me. 

 

 

[mpo910 2,027]

2 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

Lots of overreactions here.  Allow me to salt your hot-takes with a dose of reality:

1) The sim is still in development

2) They didn't say "this sim will not support VR", they said "it DOESN'T support it" as in present-tense

No one wrote that there will be no vr in MSFS 2020. We just chime a bit louder that there is a community who wants VR in the sim. I did not see a overreaction at all. Only a community who communicates about this. 

[mpo910 2,027]

1 hour ago, TechguyMaxC said:

The very first post is an over-reaction.  "Aaaad there's my hopes dashed against the rocks. Not even "no VR from the start, but it will definitely come with an update"."

The first person that responded, also said a few posts later "no VR no MSFS 2020 for me".

It's too early to say that there absolutely won't be VR in MSFS.  All the devs are saying is that it's not there right now.  People are reading too much into limited information, and reacting.  I would call that over-reacting.  If you have a better term I'm happy to listen but at this point it's really a semantic argument.

Yes that was me  no VR will indeed mean no MSFS 2020 for me. That is my meaning because I am only flightsimming with vr as I am overwelmed due the immersion. I dont see a reason why that should be seen as a overreaction. If you could buy a new car which does not come with an option which you definitly want probably you will do the same. So nothing wrong and no overreaction here

[Woozie 732]

24 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/the-new-ms-flight-simulator-taught-me-how-to-fly-an-actual-plane/

Asobo reps also made clear that VR is not currently in the cards for this version of MSFS, in spite of pretty much every member of the attending press asking that exact question. "Maybe one day, Flight Simulator will," Asobo CCO and co-founder David Dedeine told Ars. "It's not a commitment at all," he added with a laugh. "But we're already thinking about VR... We've worked on HoloLens, so we're familiar with [VR]'s types of problematics."

Exactly how they should handle this topic: no commitment, no promises, but its not like they dismiss it completely. And a subtle reminder that VR has its very own share of issues and challenges that would require precious dev time.

VR is still gen1.5 and at the time of MSFS' full release, gen2.0 hardware wont be too far away. So it makes absolutely sense that they rather wait and see what the true next gen leap will have to offer

We will likely get foveated rendering with eye tracking, which will significantly improve VR performance and will be key to unlock high res, high refreshrate VR gaming without any screen door effect at all.

And then there is controller-less hand-tracking, Ouclus announced this for Quest for early 2020.....this is by far the most important feature for VR to completely replace flatscreen simming for me.

With current hardware i have to take my hands of my HOTAS and either grab a touch controller to simulate my hand movement, or blindly reach for my mouse to move a mouse pointer in 3D space...Handtracking wil be such a gamechanger if its implemented reliabliy.  

And if you ever grab your cats butt when reaching for that touch controller....its a real immerson killer, believe me 😄

[irrics 1,517]

@Woozie

 

Fair points, however I would counter that they will miss an opportunity here simply for VFR flyers who could absolutely get by with just a great yoke and their VR headset and no need to reach for anything. 

 

That sort of setup is literally perfect for an amazing VFR experience that they are going to be providing straight away. 

 

This new FS is going to be the very best VFR experience we have seen or dreamt of. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by irrics

[mpo910 2,027]

6 minutes ago, Woozie said:

Exactly how they should handle this topic: no commitment, no promises, but its not like they dismiss it completely. And a subtle reminder that VR has its very own share of issues and challenges that would require precious dev time.

VR is still gen1.5 and at the time of MSFS' full release, gen2.0 hardware wont be too far away. So it makes absolutely sense that they rather wait and see what the true next gen leap will have to offer

We will likely get foveated rendering with eye tracking, which will significantly improve VR performance and will be key to unlock high res, high refreshrate VR gaming without any screen door effect at all.

And then there is controller-less hand-tracking, Ouclus announced this for Quest for early 2020.....this is by far the most important feature for VR to completely replace flatscreen simming for me.

With current hardware i have to take my hands of my HOTAS and either grab a touch controller to simulate my hand movement, or blindly reach for my mouse to move a mouse pointer in 3D space...Handtracking wil be such a gamechanger if its implemented reliabliy.  

And if you ever grab your cats butt when reaching for that touch controller....its a real immerson killer, believe me 😄

I Dont see it that way. XPLANE 11, Flyinside, P3D and some other category (Games) and a lot of others have it implementated. I am not asking for something new. Just something existing. It wiuld be enough if they would implement it like in P3D. Small steps, not completely with all the hassle

Edited September 30, 2019 by mpo910

[TechguyMaxC 516]

7 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Yes that was me  no VR will indeed mean no MSFS 2020 for me. That is my meaning because I am only flightsimming with vr as I am overwelmed due the immersion. I dont see a reason why that should be seen as a overreaction. If you could buy a new car which does not come with an option which you definitly want probably you will do the same. So nothing wrong and no overreaction here

It's an over-reaction for the reasons I already stated.  You're reacting as though MS have stated "there will be no VR in MSFS".  They haven't done that.  All they've said is that it's not there right now, and they'll look at adding features later.  

[irrics 1,517]

1 minute ago, TechguyMaxC said:

It's an over-reaction for the reasons I already stated.  You're reacting as though MS have stated "there will be no VR in MSFS".  They haven't done that.  All they've said is that it's not there right now, and they'll look at adding features later.  

Given that type of non commitment of any kind, it’s fair to wonder and be concerned if it will ever come. 

And future concerns aside, it’s fair to be frustrated that it won’t be there from the beginning or at least that it hasn’t been something they’ve been targeting from the get go. 

Great VR is all about great performance and if that’s not considered from the ground up it is a concern about how well it might ever perform in VR. 

[chass32 138]

4 minutes ago, Woozie said:

 

And then there is controller-less hand-tracking, Ouclus announced this for Quest for early 2020.....this is by far the most important feature for VR to completely replace flatscreen simming for me.

With current hardware i have to take my hands of my HOTAS and either grab a touch controller to simulate my hand movement, or blindly reach for my mouse to move a mouse pointer in 3D space...Handtracking wil be such a gamechanger if its implemented reliabliy.  

 

Hand tracking is going to be an absolute game changer here. The possibility of using a real yoke and use your hands at the same time to push buttons and turn knobs in VR is exciting. So we don´t know if the hand tracking is coming to Rift S and we don´t know when we will have VR in MSFS...had better days 😕

Cheers

Carlos

[mpo910 2,027]

4 minutes ago, TechguyMaxC said:

It's an over-reaction for the reasons I already stated.  You're reacting as though MS have stated "there will be no VR in MSFS".  They haven't done that.  All they've said is that it's not there right now, and they'll look at adding features later.  

Please do not draw more on a board as what I wrote. Especially now I made myself very clear why I posted it and how I ment it. That should be possible and dont need your kind of reaction. Just because it isnt helpful in any way. Would be respectful to all those who wanted vr in an early poaaible stadium or later....

[Woozie 732]

5 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

I Dont see it that way. XPLANE P3D and a lot of others have it implementated. I am not asking for aomething new. Just something existing. It wiuld be enough if they would implement it like in P3D. Small steps, not completely with all the hassle

I didnt say its difficult to implement a VR mode. I have played many games where devs just slapped a VR mode onto games made for 2D and it certainly felt like something that was slapped on. Also i dont consider the VR experience in current sims like P3D or DCS as optimal.It works, yes, but its far away from being perfect in terms or performance or ease of use.

I rather wait for a careful developed, nearly flawless VR implementation...

[mpo910 2,027]

5 minutes ago, Woozie said:

I didnt say its difficult to implement a VR mode. I have played many games where devs just slapped a VR mode onto games made for 2D and it certainly felt like something that was slapped on. Also i dont consider the VR experience in current sims like P3D or DCS as optimal.It works, yes, but its far away from being perfect in terms or performance or ease of use.

I rather wait for a careful developed, nearly flawless VR implementation...

Knew that. I dont have performance issuew. Use a reverb and 8700k with 2080ti. Even with 7700k and 1080ti all good to go. And a lot of simmers need a higher end system as it is common that flightsimming is hammering your system wthout even using vr. Techniques changes, vr isnt that problematic anymore as 2 years ago. I had 7 hmd and tested them all over 2 years. They made huge steps forward. 

I only whish it early and not maybe or months or years later. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by mpo910

[zachrussell 12]

Just now, Woozie said:

I didnt say its difficult to implement a VR mode. I have played many games where devs just slapped a VR mode onto games made for 2D and it certainly felt like something that was slapped on. Also i dont consider the VR experience in current sims like P3D or DCS as optimal.It works, yes, but its far away from being perfect in terms or performance or ease of use.

I rather wait for a careful developed, nearly flawless VR implementation...

I appreciate where you are coming from, however I believe a large part of why VR feels slapped into both P3D and DCS is the core optimisation of the sim its self, and how it runs on our current hardware.

Not so much because it was overlooked or rushed when implemented into the sim.

I don't feel that would be so much of a problem for Microsoft with the new sim optimised for future hardware. 

 

 

[TechguyMaxC 516]

7 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Please do not draw more on a board as what I wrote. Especially now I made myself very clear why I posted it and how I ment it. That should be possible and dont need your kind of reaction. Just because it isnt helpful in any way. Would be respectful to all those who wanted vr in an early poaaible stadium or later....

I want MSFS to include VR too.  If you read between the lines, it's pretty obvious that a VR implementation will happen at some point, they just haven't finished it yet and they don't want to get everyone all excited for a feature that may not be ready on launch day.  

[Woozie 732]

1 minute ago, zachrussell said:

I appreciate where you are coming from, however I believe a large part of why VR feels slapped into both P3D and DCS is the core optimisation of the sim its self, and how it runs on our current hardware.

Not so much because it was overlooked or rushed when implemented into the sim.

I don't feel that would be so much of a problem for Microsoft with the new sim optimised for future hardware. 

 

 

I agree, its not rocket science at all. But from a developers perspective, you just open another can of worms if you go VR. You'd have to deal with issues that wouldn't even exist in a pure 2D game. And all that using tech that is still considered experimental, meaning that it could still see significant changes in a short timeframe, unlike established and proven tech.