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VR Inclusion in MSFS

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9 hours ago, Vindeballe said:

I read all of this thread, and wonder how much time and effort (money) it will take to include VR?

The real question is how much will it cost Microsoft in the future if it isn't included.

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Specs: I9-10900KF, RTX 3090 | 32bg ram I9-9900K Nvidia 1080 TI, 32bg ram | Headsets: HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
Flight Simulators: MSFS, DCS

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You know, these people worrying about the effort needed to include VR, and claiming that vr users are such a low percentage of potential users hinge their argument on a logical (but common within the community) fallacy of our own importance as a market.

I'm thinking I can guess with pretty high confidence that Microsoft has poured millions of dollars into this endeavour.

Is anyone really seriously thinking that they can recoup that money from the niche core of hardcore simmers alone? Honestly?

How many people are on the various flightsim forums out there? Does anyone really think that this market pulls in even 30 million dollars, divided over every last sim-related purchase per year? (and I would guess its a lot LOT less than that)

This effort from Microsoft can almost certainly not be all about us, or even close. (unless MS is suddenly feeling philanthropic, which I doubt seriously)

Truely, I would be surprised if the sim community could pony up even a million active enthusiast purchasers worldwide, and we dare to think we are the end-all and be all while scoffing at literally millions of HMD users and the possibly significant percentage of them just lusting after the next killer app?

Beat saber, a rather simple game, just sold a million copies, one indicator of a burgeoning VR market I suspect already dwarfs the dedicated civilian simulation market by several orders of magnitude.

Just from a standpoint of logic, I think if I was MS and looking at the largest potential market for my new offering, I would certainly "pet the dog" of the hard-core simmer community, but I would also be expecting to make most of my money from casual gamers, including those within the burgeoning 4 billion dollar a year market of gamers using VR headsets, not even taking into account the synergy with Microsoft's own WMR devices. (I might even include the sim with new headset purchases)

For some reason that honestly escapes me, the community repeatedly assumes that any new sim is naturally all about us, and that we as a market are so desirable and important that dedicated simmers, by some sort of innate ownership rights to the genre are the natural ones to call the shots... 

So much so that anything not of highest priority to our own tiny island of potential purchasers should naturally be suppressed for the greater good.

I can't even adequately convey how silly I think that is.

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@HiFlyer

I wish I could upvote your post more than once..

As much as "Captain 747 Desk Jockey" doing long hauls in real time with third party ATC, 15 add-ons, multiple monitors and thousands of dollars of hardware peripherals - perhaps even their own full blown basement SimPit - would like to think MSFS is back "for them".

 

It is not.  

 

To your point, the investment in the hardcore FS market simply would never make sense financially - not even close.

Edited by irrics
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I own about 30 games for VR, beat sabre is not one of those. But VR users tend to have more purchasing power than non vr gamers. One thing I have seen parried around is the amount of VR users on steam being 1%. One thing this doesn't account for is the more than 50% of "gamers" on steam that are running hardware that could never play any modern games and most certainly aren't going to be using MSFS 2020 on those machines. If you look at the current top selling items on steam, the valve index is 4th right behind destiny 2 and all of its variations. That is a $999 dollar kit! Clearly the market is growing. But VR users tend to purchase all of the best VR games as a method of testing the platform I would suppose. Fallout 4 vr and Skyrim VR are top selling VR titles, most of the people that purchased those games already owned and played the non vr versions. How many casual gamers buy a game twice just to see what its like on another platform? Skyrim VR sold 1 million copies, the skyrim enhanced edition, which is basically skyrim VR minus the VR part, sold 1.3 million. Obviously there is a market for VR and it is a fast growing one. 

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I agree, but the same thing could be applied to literally anything in the sim. They still have to deal with the real issue of total number of people vs total number of things to do. 
 

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On 9/30/2019 at 10:44 AM, Farlis said:

I'm sorry, what?

Spatial awareness, correct feeling of distances, being able to properly look for other aircraft or where a runway is, this isn't supposed to be useful for training? Are you taking us for a ride?!

If he's taking us for a ride, I'm not going since he doesn't use VR 😉 

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23 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Come on dear simmers. This threat is not about complaining of sickness. It was opened to ask MS to become VR implemented. A discussion about sickness is another topic. Or?

That was just a side point. Forums are not academic debates (which even themselves involve meandering). 

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1 hour ago, HiFlyer said:

You know, these people worrying about the effort needed to include VR, and claiming that vr users are such a low percentage of potential users hinge their argument on a logical (but common within the community) fallacy of our own importance as a market.

I'm thinking I can guess with pretty high confidence that Microsoft has poured millions of dollars into this endeavour.

Is anyone really seriously thinking that they can recoup that money from the niche core of hardcore simmers alone? Honestly?

How many people are on the various flightsim forums out there? Does anyone really think that this market pulls in even 30 million dollars, divided over every last sim-related purchase per year? (and I would guess its a lot LOT less than that)

This effort from Microsoft can almost certainly not be all about us, or even close. (unless MS is suddenly feeling philanthropic, which I doubt seriously)

Truely, I would be surprised if the sim community could pony up even a million active enthusiast purchasers worldwide, and we dare to think we are the end-all and be all while scoffing at literally millions of HMD users and the possibly significant percentage of them just lusting after the next killer app?

Beat saber, a rather simple game, just sold a million copies, one indicator of a burgeoning VR market I suspect already dwarfs the dedicated civilian simulation market by several orders of magnitude.

Just from a standpoint of logic, I think if I was MS and looking at the largest potential market for my new offering, I would certainly "pet the dog" of the hard-core simmer community, but I would also be expecting to make most of my money from casual gamers, including those within the burgeoning 4 billion dollar a year market of gamers using VR headsets, not even taking into account the synergy with Microsoft's own WMR devices. (I might even include the sim with new headset purchases)

For some reason that honestly escapes me, the community repeatedly assumes that any new sim is naturally all about us, and that we as a market are so desirable and important that dedicated simmers, by some sort of innate ownership rights to the genre are the natural ones to call the shots... 

So much so that anything not of highest priority to our own tiny island of potential purchasers should naturally be suppressed for the greater good.

I can't even adequately convey how silly I think that is.

Slow golf clap...Bravo! It this is indeed a 10 year MS2020 plan, then they need to plumb VR into it now. It would be a colossal blunder not to.

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Specs: I9-10900KF, RTX 3090 | 32bg ram I9-9900K Nvidia 1080 TI, 32bg ram | Headsets: HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
Flight Simulators: MSFS, DCS

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in 2020 the VR HMDs will improve. i'm using  lenovo explorer HMD for DCS and  XP11. despite low res and other flaws i do 100% prefere the VR experience to  4k screen.

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20 minutes ago, archipelago said:

in 2020 the VR HMDs will improve. i'm using  lenovo explorer HMD for DCS and  XP11. despite low res and other flaws i do 100% prefere the VR experience to  4k screen.

HP reverb is 2160X2160. I have it and can recommend.  I am totally satisfied with it for all sim.

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Specs: I9-10900KF, RTX 3090 | 32bg ram I9-9900K Nvidia 1080 TI, 32bg ram | Headsets: HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
Flight Simulators: MSFS, DCS

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26 minutes ago, daveinca2000 said:

HP reverb is 2160X2160. I have it and can recommend.  I am totally satisfied with it for all sim.

yes, i've seen some good reviews for reverb. maybe i'll sell the explorer and get the reverb for xmas. 🙂

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6 minutes ago, archipelago said:

yes, i've seen some good reviews for reverb. maybe i'll sell the explorer and get the reverb for xmas. 🙂

Nice.  If you buy the Pro model, it comes with a 3 year exchange or refund. $599 vs $549(?). The non pro version was on sale recently for $499 with 1 year warranty.

Edited by daveinca2000
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Specs: I9-10900KF, RTX 3090 | 32bg ram I9-9900K Nvidia 1080 TI, 32bg ram | Headsets: HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
Flight Simulators: MSFS, DCS

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7 minutes ago, daveinca2000 said:

Nice.  If you buy the Pro model, it comes with a 3 year exchange or refund. $599 vs $549(?). The non pro version was on sale recently for $499.

thanks, i'm in the EU so prices are a bit higher.. i still hope they will implement the VR mode at launch or soon after..

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I'm using the oculus CV1, was planning on upgrading at some point because I have a sun blob from the lens being exposed to sunlight. It's not major, but its there. I am holding out though to see what happens with the oculus hand tracking. I think it would be cool to be able to use my hands so I can grab the physical controls I have without having to put the touch controllers down. 


i5 7600k @5.1 ghz Liquid cooled, 1080ti Duke 11GB, 32GB DDR4 3400, 8TB m.2 PCIE NVME array intel 660P X 4, Oculus Rift, TM Hotas, TM TPR rudder, 

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5 minutes ago, adamv1 said:

I'm using the oculus CV1, was planning on upgrading at some point because I have a sun blob from the lens being exposed to sunlight. It's not major, but its there. I am holding out though to see what happens with the oculus hand tracking. I think it would be cool to be able to use my hands so I can grab the physical controls I have without having to put the touch controllers down. 

I have Quest as well, and I was pleasantly surprised that tethering is supported AND hand tracking.  Someone will support it.  Quest is selling them as fast as they can make them. Oculus confirmed that it will support Oculus store and Steam.

Edited by daveinca2000
additional thoughts


Specs: I9-10900KF, RTX 3090 | 32bg ram I9-9900K Nvidia 1080 TI, 32bg ram | Headsets: HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
Flight Simulators: MSFS, DCS

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