Four seasons?

[Noodle 626]

A lot of unnecessary and incorrect comments in here. Devs already confirmed the MSFS engine is perfectly capable of rendering seasons, but it is not currently implemented. When they will add seasons depends on the feedback they get on forums like these. They estimated seasons were the second most requested feature after VR.

They dont have plans to include seasons at release, but plan to add features based on popular request. So if you think seasons should be prioritized over helicopters or VR, go vote in the poll at the top of the forum so Asobo and MS get the message.

[Alan_A 1,650]

2 minutes ago, Noodle said:

go vote in the poll at the top of the forum

Thanks!  Had been buried in this thread and hadn't seen it. 

Hope the devs check it out.  From what they've been saying, I think they will.

[Gulfstream 416]

3 hours ago, rjfry said:

Well I can tell you I will not be taking up MSFS until seasons are fully implemented ... at the moment I am flying in the fall as you call it in the US as my sim is set to my PC date, and enjoying the Autumn tree colours the brown's with Terraflora  addon and regional trees.

Ok, stay with P3D simply due to seasons (?) while the rest of us bask in what appears to be shaping up as a revolutionary flight simulator, miles beyond the old ones.

That's sort of why I really don't get it.

[G-RFRY 1,708]

Well when they strip out something that been a part of the sim for over 20 years I don't get it, I will let you beta test it then IF they implement it some time in the future then I may be interested. 

What makes me laugh is users wanting icing affect on aircraft in December with summer textures very realistic on the runway. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by rjfry

[pracines 823]

7 hours ago, Tim-HH said:

A Microsoft Flight Simulator without seasons would be quite a let down! Especially as the devs have said that it would be not much work for them to implement seasons. It's just a matter of priority. 

Thanks for posting that interview.

Like you, I too see seasons in a flight sim as a NO BRAINER. How it can even be said its a matter of priority is baffling to me. Flight sim feature lists are full of hundreds of features that are all on priority #1. Picking a choosing among the basics puts the project in danger of failing, in my view. 

Like I told DTG's: ☣️  EXCUSES  ☣️ ….they did not listen.🤷‍♂️

[Paraffin 2,197]

12 minutes ago, rjfry said:

What makes me laugh is users wanting icing affect on aircraft in December with summer textures very realistic on the runway. 

I understand what you're saying, but unless the ground crew is being careless about de-icing before takeoff, the major threat of icing in aviation happens when you're airborne. And often in weather conditions where you're not enjoying pretty sunlit views of the ground, but instead you're flying in cloud. It's one of the triggers for in-flight icing.

XP has never had seasons. But because it's an important thing to model for weather impact on aviation, it's had icing for years. Get into the right conditions, and your plane starts to get heavy and eventually drops. Some aircraft models like the Carenado PC-12 now actually show gradual ice buildup visually on the wings. 

We've been asking for seasons in XP for years, but Austin covered the most important weather impact on aviation first: the in-flight icing. From what I've heard, I'm sure the MSFS crew will be doing the same. The visual effects on the ground are important for immersion, yes I agree. I hate flying in XP11 in Alaska in Winter. It doesn't look right. But before anything else, I want to see the in-flight weather effects properly modeled. 

[vortex681 806]

4 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

Really?  How?

 Flew many summers up in Massachusetts in my dad’s Bonanza and never had an icing issue once!!!!

Carburettor icing can happen in warm temperatures, see: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/june/10/training-tip-the-ice-of-summer

[pracines 823]

5 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

I doubt the 20 or so people on this thread will have a big enough impact for them to shift 200 developers over to making sure seasons are in place for launch.

Why start an unnecessary debate? It makes no sense at all to be against including seasons in a flight sim that covers the entire planet.

I think I can promise you that if seasons are included, you will still be able to fly in summer all year long if you choose.

So, for those of us who want seasons, it will not harm you who don't care about seasons, but no having seasons does harm those who do want seasons.

[irrics 1,517]

Guys, for VFR I can understand seasons being a priority, but I think it's important to understand the other side here.

For IFR or for those who are more concerned with modeling the flying and atmosphere portions of things (what matters the most I would argue), "seasons" on the scenery doesn't matter one bit.

Seasons are purely a visual thing.  

Don't get me wrong, I'd like seasons implemented at some point, but it's not in any way impacting the actual flight simulation so long as they are modeling the ground & atmospheric interactions correctly for the given conditions, irrespective of what the ground/terrain/trees "look like" (seasons)

Edited October 2, 2019 by irrics

[ckyliu 1,749]

@Kilo60 @rjfry 30'c (i.e. nearly 90'F) at sea level is 0'c at FL150. You can very definitely get severe icing in a summer heatwave! 

But it gets worse, you can get icing at 10'c SAT because because air pressure drops as it is accelerated in a jet engine intake or piston engine carburetor, causing a corresponding temperature drop.

Traditionally FSX was very poor at simulating icing and even if you did ice there were only mild consequences aside from pitot blockage, although some addons like A2A pistons and PMDG J41 are much enhanced. They say this had been improved in the new sim, I very much hope it has.

Edited October 2, 2019 by ckyliu

[G-RFRY 1,708]

2 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

@Kilo60 @rjfry 30'c (i.e. nearly 90'F) at sea level is 0'c at FL150. You can very definitely get severe icing in a summer heatwave! 

But it gets worse, you can get icing at 10'c SAT because because air pressure drops as it is accelerated in a jet engine intake or piston engine carburetor, causing a corresponding temperature drop.

I am not stupid I know about icing in the sky you can get hail stones in the summer in the UK with freak weather when a cold front hit a warm front, that not what I'm getting at load at KORD jan 4th winter real weather it`s snowing hard not unheard of in Chicago O`Hare take off no snow on the scenery just in the air. 

[pracines 823]

I'm concerned that we have X-Plane proponents here who may not like the idea of MSFS having seasons, because this has the potential for sweeping the market. The reason I think this is because there is no good reason to not include seasons day 1. Even a delay of including seasons should not even be on the table. 

This kind of thing needs to be tested early with this new engine - if it were the same old ESP it could be more predictable, but this is all new and it needs to be scrutinized early. The same should be said for most basic features like ATC and AI.

I really would hate to see these important features get back burner treatment only to be released with scores of unnecessary issues. There is no sense in aiming for fixes/patches, rather aim for added features after release, not patches!👍

 🙂

[irrics 1,517]

11 minutes ago, pracines said:

I'm concerned that we have X-Plane proponents here who may not like the idea of MSFS having seasons, because this has the potential for sweeping the market. The reason I think this is because there is no good reason to not include seasons day 1. Even a delay of including seasons should not even be on the table. 

This kind of thing needs to be tested early with this new engine - if it were the same old ESP it could be more predictable, but this is all new and it needs to be scrutinized early. The same should be said for most basic features like ATC and AI.

I really would hate to see these important features get back burner treatment only to be released with scores of unnecessary issues. There is no sense in aiming for fixes/patches, rather aim for added features after release, not patches!👍

 🙂

I could easily sub in the term “VR” into your post there. Haha

[Paraffin 2,197]

1 hour ago, pracines said:

I'm concerned that we have X-Plane proponents here who may not like the idea of MSFS having seasons, because this has the potential for sweeping the market.

Oh, c'mon. Show me an X-Plane pilot who doesn't like the idea of the new MSFS having seasons. I sure want them in the new sim! I just posted earlier today about how I hate flying in Alaska in XP because it always looks like Summer. Better weather modeling is actually higher on my personal list, but seasons are important too.

I want to see seasons in the new MSFS, but I understand how difficult it will be with a scenery engine based on satellite orthos and lower altitude photogrammetry. It's why Orbx TE scenery doesn't have seasons.

MS/ASOBO will have some heavy lifting to alter this raw data taken under the best Summer conditions so it looks like different times of the year. Maybe with shaders? Who knows. As long as they say it's in the pipeline but maybe not for first release, I'm happy. 

[Noodle 626]

I don't think there's any reason to panic. We're getting a revolutionary update to the scenery renderer, with lots of magic happening behind the scenes to integrate various data layers, color correction of aerial imagery tiles, using AI to perform imagery analysis and fill in areas lacking sufficient data, etc.

It's not unreasonable to want to perfect that process, and begin tidying up what will surely be hundreds or thousands of examples of "weirdness" users are going to uncover as we set off across the globe in the days and weeks after release.

The devs have made it clear that MSFS will be a decade-long effort with regular free updates to add core functionality not present at release. It's just a matter of priority.

The idea that MS has or will "strip out" features that have been a part of MSFS for "20 years" is not to be taken seriously. No one is stripping anything. They're creating a new engine essentially from scratch and ADDING features as they go. For reasons already explained, seasons necessarily come later in the process.

The talk of XP is just a red herring. Who cares what XP fan bois do or don't do? If they like their simulator, they can keep it. More power to them. 

Similarly, if you're wringing your hands and gnashing your teeth because you might have to wait 3 or 6 additional months while the developers implement seasons what do you want to hear? Although the engine supports it, it's not a trivial task. It will take time and there are competing priorities.

Try and keep some perspective. We have a revolutionary new sim built by enthusiastic developers who are totally engaged with the community, and we know the title will be continuously updated with additional features in a process driven my customer interaction. If you were around for any version of FS prior to this, you should know how different - and BETTER - this is.

I'm very disappointed we won't have complex ATC at release, but guess what? I'm going to put on my big boy pants, enjoy what I've got, and offer any assistance I can provide to make the game better.

Anything else is just childish.