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france89

Avsim podcast with MSFS Team - Help me list all the info

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys, even tho this is not new by now, i only managed to listen to a little bit of the whole interview now since it's 43 minutes long.

I wish there was a transcript of it all to capture all the finest details. If you want to listen to it too:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/npflp15dzg40o2b/AVSim_Interview_AUDIO.mp3

- HELICOPTERS: It needs a rework compared to what FSX offered, it will take time and it will also depends on what the community feedback. From Bing Map they can extract helipads from the real world.

- WEATHER: Microsoft Flight Simulator features realistic volumetric 3D rain and scattered fog, rain effects on windshields and even physically accurate rainbows in the environment. The new volumetric clouds are ultra-detailed with 32 layers of density, shape and fuzziness and are fully 3D and therefore visible from any angle. Clouds are simulated around the world with a view distance of 600km.

live, real-world weather, including fronts, storms, rain, and all-real-world clouds presented in the sim. The simulator uses 20 vertical layers of worldwide weather data, including pressure, temperature, humidity, wind speed, direction and gusts.

- Improved Aerodynamics: improved physics engine, surface element aerodynamics and new air mass simulations. new collision model that allows the support of slopped runways, skidding, braking and bumps. There are over 1000 simulated surfaces with locally applied 3D forces and 3D moments, enabling local stalling, buffeting and flutter. Native support of advanced aerodynamics makes it possible for realistic stalls, deep stalls, spins in addition to other aerobatics: chandelle, flat spin and invert flat spin. The air mass simulation affects each surface of the aircraft locally and differently, and any 3D shape of any size impacts the movements of air. Hills, mountains and buildings create thermics, updrafts and currents.

- INSTALL SIZE:  the MSFS install size for now should be around 100gb and he keeps around 10gb reserved for the cache (remember that this space can be set by the user). He also mentions that a couple of GB will go away by covering the airport and the nearby area for a typical descent/climb. This of course also varies depending on the Bing coverage and how much data is available in that area.
The Seattle area of the pre-alpha with LOD 19 and LOD 20 was around 60gb

- ATC: they mentioned that in one of the dev build on the world map you would see green dots flying around. And those dots were real life traffic and you could click on it to get info on said flight, and even setup the same flight. You can't crash into them but you can see them, and at one point the AI takes the "yoke" because the data stops when they finish landing.

- THIRD PARTIES: in contact with them since E3. Some were invited to visit Asobo too in case they needed info even before the SDK gets released. The SDK is evolved from the one FSX had and they are getting feedback from third parties

- ASOBO: 60% of them are taking real flight lessons

- AZURE: based on 20,000 computers, managed to tag all trees on the planet from satellite photo in under 7 days. It also managed to find houses, the kind of rooftop on them, clouds and blurred areas in the orthophotos

- User Interface: At Microsoft there is a User Research Department made by behavioral scientists, all PhDs and in the labs they can track what users are doing with the eyes and hands to create the most elegant GUI.

- SOUNDS: real sound for each aircraft (partnership with manufacturers)

- VR: They cannot say at the moment whether it will be there on first release but they’re trying to prioritise it

Have you extracted anything else from it which wasn't covered in other videos/articles around or in the list above?

Edited by france89
adding more information
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1 hour ago, france89 said:

- ATC: they mentioned that in one of the dev build on the world map you would see green dots flying around. And those dots were real life traffic and you could click on it to get info on said flight, and even setup the same flight. You can't crash into them but you can see them, and at one point the AI takes the "yoke" because the data stops when they finish landing.

This is excellent! 

So we will see real world aircraft "AI" flying around in FS2020, just like can be seen on services like FlightRadar24 etc.  And of course they will be flying actual SIDs/STARs.

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6 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

This is excellent! 

So we will see real world aircraft "AI" flying around in FS2020, just like can be seen on services like FlightRadar24 etc.  And of course they will be flying actual SIDs/STARs.

I guess you still need the models (and all the paints) for correct depiction in the Sim, but having the live data alone is quite a feature. At start I will probably whatever generic aircraft they have. 

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3 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

This is excellent! 

So we will see real world aircraft "AI" flying around in FS2020, just like can be seen on services like FlightRadar24 etc.  And of course they will be flying actual SIDs/STARs.

I don't think this is excellent at all.  Will be ok for cruise, but how on earth are you going to get the appropriate spacing at busy major airfields?  And how will atc control both you and the live AI in tandem - simply showing ai flights as they are in reality is the easy part, actually controlling them is pretty much impossible I'd say.

I would like realistic atc that reacts and controls ai depending on where Im flying and what Im doing, as well as controlling me properly.  I hope there are options to have both live ai traffic (for those that want it, not me) and also not real but intelligent MFS controlled ai traffic, that is controlled  as per ICAO regs, by voice, in a seamless integrated way.

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25 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

This is excellent! 

So we will see real world aircraft "AI" flying around in FS2020, just like can be seen on services like FlightRadar24 etc.  And of course they will be flying actual SIDs/STARs.

Actually. This have some heavy limitations. FR24 doesn’t allow (by now) use their data, and there aren’t much freeware sources out there (I don’t know anyone with the same coverage as FR).

if you use live traffic for XP, you know how it feels. 

Also, your plane doesn’t even exist for the rest of the traffic. So I think if this works that way, AI will be necessary in more than one occasion (taxi, app, take off order, etc.).

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2 hours ago, france89 said:

- ASOBO: 60% of them are taking real flight lessons

I cant stress enough how big of a win this is for us. Also financing the flying lessons for 60% of the staff is no easy feat which tells us that they really want to focus on the realism. How the plane flies and how the world looks from a pilots perspective. No wonder we are seeing photo realistic visuals. 

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Missing ,

“Microsoft Flight Simulator” features realistic volumetric 3D rain and scattered fog, rain effects on windshields and even physically accurate rainbows in the environment. The new volumetric clouds are ultra-detailed with 32 layers of density, shape and fuzziness and are fully 3D and therefore visible from any angle. Clouds are simulated around the world with a view distance of 600km.

live, real-world weather, including fronts, storms, rain, and all-real-world clouds presented in the sim. The simulator uses 20 vertical layers of worldwide weather data, including pressure, temperature, humidity, wind speed, direction and gusts.

  Missing Improved Aerodynamics

 improved physics engine, surface element aerodynamics and new air mass simulations. new collision model that allows the support of slopped runways, skidding, braking and bumps. There are over 1000 simulated surfaces with locally applied 3D forces and 3D moments, enabling local stalling, buffeting and flutter. Native support of advanced aerodynamics makes it possible for realistic stalls, deep stalls, spins in addition to other aerobatics: chandelle, flat spin and invert flat spin. The air mass simulation affects each surface of the aircraft locally and differently, and any 3D shape of any size impacts the movements of air. Hills, mountains and buildings create thermics, updrafts and currents.

Best CJ

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Posted (edited)

 

32 minutes ago, Chuck_Jodry-VJPL said:

 

Hey Chuck

Thanks.

A suggestion : you should pin on this forum a post linking to the front page article or maybe this thread. I must admit that I generally go straight to the forum index when hitting Avsim. I may not be alone.

Edited by domkle

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- real sound for each aircraft (partnership with manufacturers)

- VR: They cannot say at the moment whether it will be there on first release but they’re trying to prioritise it

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"A suggestion : you should pin on this forum a post linking to the front page article or maybe this thread. I must admit that I generally go straight to the forum index when hitting Avsim. I may not be alone"

 

I figure I have do so when I unpin it from the Front Page, mention was made of doing so by the moderators , I had thought one among them would have done so already but perhaps they were waiting for me to do so even though I never pin topics in the forums .  

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1 hour ago, MatthewS said:

This is excellent! 

So we will see real world aircraft "AI" flying around in FS2020, just like can be seen on services like FlightRadar24 etc.  And of course they will be flying actual SIDs/STARs.

Keep in mind that they said it was one of the dev build, so at some point they explored this idea. We don't know if it will be the one they are going to follow or not.

59 minutes ago, Chuck_Jodry-VJPL said:

Missing ,

Best CJ

 

4 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

- real sound for each aircraft (partnership with manufacturers)

- VR: They cannot say at the moment whether it will be there on first release but they’re trying to prioritise it

Thank you, added both to the first post!

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@france89 thanks for this, there are quite a few bits in there that I didn’t already know. 
 

funnily enough, the lab referred to was featured in ‘Click’ (the BBC’s technology show) over the weekend. It looks a very high tech place - there’s even a test where they literally sew sensors into testers’ hands so they can see how much force they need to use to do various things!

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5 hours ago, france89 said:

- ATC: they mentioned that in one of the dev build on the world map you would see green dots flying around. And those dots were real life traffic and you could click on it to get info on said flight, and even setup the same flight. You can't crash into them but you can see them, and at one point the AI takes the "yoke" because the data stops when they finish landing.

Just a thought... should this item be renamed "AI" since there's no mention of Air Traffic Control in the description?

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9 hours ago, OSJJ1985 said:

I guess you still need the models (and all the paints) for correct depiction in the Sim, but having the live data alone is quite a feature. At start I will probably whatever generic aircraft they have. 

Maybe the models and paints is something MS will stream also.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

And how will atc control both you and the live AI in tandem

Well it could always give the live AI priority, and your aircraft is the only one that the internal "ATC" needs to control... So the live "AI" does it's own real world thing and you are the one that has to fit in with it.

Anyway, there would probably be a key that lets you toggle off the live AI within a certain radius, say 5NM... Then you got nice clear final and runway etc

 

Edited by MatthewS
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ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC. Very few use absolutely need default ATC and those are lower skilled rookie simmers.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Greazer said:

ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC. Very few use absolutely need default ATC and those are lower skilled rookie simmers.

That's a pretty confident position.  Please link to the study supporting your conclusions.

Edited by dmiannay
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50 minutes ago, Greazer said:

ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC.

Well there’s a couple of often stated issues with those choices.  Online ATC isn’t always available where you want to fly, and even when it is sometimes the lack of other users means you’re all alone anyway. I’m a big fan of PilotEdge but I hate frequently being all alone up in the PNW.  The add-on ATC presently isn’t a solution either, most of them just issue random instructions with little regard for other traffic.


The next iteration of AI needs a couple of things:

AI needs to practice “see and avoid” and take actions to resolve any conflicts with other aircraft, or at least player aircraft at a minimum. This is how it’s done outside of controlled airspace anyway so it should be the foundation for anything else.

AI also need the ability to be controlled and have an SDK.  This would not only add the ability for third party devs to create ATC apps, but it would potentially allow AI to work concurrently with real users in an online environment.
 

Once we have better AI the ATC experience will also get better.

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12 minutes ago, BrianW said:

AI also need the ability to be controlled and have an SDK.  This would not only add the ability for third party devs to create ATC apps, but it would potentially allow AI to work concurrently with real users in an online environment.

In my opinion, this is a excellent idea.  Asobo didn't seem bullish to include ATC at this time, at least for launch, so I'd love to see them make a way for third parties to fully integrate a solution for both ATC and AI.  For me, a solution that doesn't depend on others being online to be effective is optimal.  A solution that is always there when you're in the sim providing you realistic guidance day or night.  I realize this is a very complicated software challenge, but hope some enterprising developers see it as an opportunity.  ATC is a vital part of nearly every flying experience... to not have it available reduces the overall benefits of an in-depth flight simulator.

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8 hours ago, dmiannay said:

In my opinion, this is a excellent idea.  Asobo didn't seem bullish to include ATC at this time, at least for launch, so I'd love to see them make a way for third parties to fully integrate a solution for both ATC and AI.  For me, a solution that doesn't depend on others being online to be effective is optimal.  A solution that is always there when you're in the sim providing you realistic guidance day or night.  I realize this is a very complicated software challenge, but hope some enterprising developers see it as an opportunity.  ATC is a vital part of nearly every flying experience... to not have it available reduces the overall benefits of an in-depth flight simulator.

Yes, whatever gets put in there I really hope it doesn’t require speaking to real people. Maybe I’m in the minority, or old-fashioned, but I still find it a bit over the top actually speaking to pretend controllers in my pretend aeroplane. In the first stage I would be happy with something just like fsx, but with sids and stars featuring too. 

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10 hours ago, Greazer said:

ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC. Very few use absolutely need default ATC and those are lower skilled rookie simmers.

That is absolutely not true. And one of the best examples of the wrong and elitist attitude some people seem to have developed.

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Posted (edited)

I fear some people are expecting too much from default ATC in MSFS. History has clearly proven that ATC is by far the hardest thing to get right for a flight sim. In the past decade almost everything has been covered to most people's satisfaction (planes, scenery, weather, etc.) but there isn't a single ATC solution that everyone likes and/or that's really good. I prefer ProATC and love it but it's far from perfect. IPACS has been working on ATC for a few years now (afaik it's the ONLY main feature they are working on) and we were promised a preview of it two years ago but we still haven't seen anything... Can we expect MS to deliver totally awesome ATC out of the box...? I don't think so. Or at least I don't expect so. Of course I hope so 😉 but I do think it's wise to keep our expectations low. There will be a lot of WOW features in MSFS that will blow other sims out of the sky but ATC won't be one of them, so I predict.

Edited by Flamingpie
Corrected two typing errors

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Posted (edited)

I think we don t have to always look behind and say " look at them, they haven t be able to deliver in 2 years..." 

Everyone knows it is one of the most challenging features to implement in any sim.

But the difference is this sim is made right now with an excellent, numerous and implicated team wich wants to deliver the best product possible, not to mention they have total control of the native code and they can use Microsoft ressources.

Why rely on 3rd parties who will be more oriented to make business? (no judgement, everyone has to pay bills!)

But like they said, they have all the data available, they are in this with us, they are willing to do it, let them do it, even if it is not perfect at launch, they have the best chances to make the next gen ATC we have all dreamt of!

Edited by Noooch
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- VR: They cannot say at the moment whether it will be there on first release but they’re trying to prioritise it

Really? So they actually listen? The simulator is not ready for release before native VR support is implemented.

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