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Avsim podcast with MSFS Team - Help me list all the info

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9 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

And how will atc control both you and the live AI in tandem

Well it could always give the live AI priority, and your aircraft is the only one that the internal "ATC" needs to control... So the live "AI" does it's own real world thing and you are the one that has to fit in with it.

Anyway, there would probably be a key that lets you toggle off the live AI within a certain radius, say 5NM... Then you got nice clear final and runway etc

 

Edited by MatthewS
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Matthew S

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ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC. Very few use absolutely need default ATC and those are lower skilled rookie simmers.

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44 minutes ago, Greazer said:

ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC. Very few use absolutely need default ATC and those are lower skilled rookie simmers.

That's a pretty confident position.  Please link to the study supporting your conclusions.

Edited by dmiannay
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Doug Miannay

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50 minutes ago, Greazer said:

ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC.

Well there’s a couple of often stated issues with those choices.  Online ATC isn’t always available where you want to fly, and even when it is sometimes the lack of other users means you’re all alone anyway. I’m a big fan of PilotEdge but I hate frequently being all alone up in the PNW.  The add-on ATC presently isn’t a solution either, most of them just issue random instructions with little regard for other traffic.


The next iteration of AI needs a couple of things:

AI needs to practice “see and avoid” and take actions to resolve any conflicts with other aircraft, or at least player aircraft at a minimum. This is how it’s done outside of controlled airspace anyway so it should be the foundation for anything else.

AI also need the ability to be controlled and have an SDK.  This would not only add the ability for third party devs to create ATC apps, but it would potentially allow AI to work concurrently with real users in an online environment.
 

Once we have better AI the ATC experience will also get better.

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Brian W

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12 minutes ago, BrianW said:

AI also need the ability to be controlled and have an SDK.  This would not only add the ability for third party devs to create ATC apps, but it would potentially allow AI to work concurrently with real users in an online environment.

In my opinion, this is a excellent idea.  Asobo didn't seem bullish to include ATC at this time, at least for launch, so I'd love to see them make a way for third parties to fully integrate a solution for both ATC and AI.  For me, a solution that doesn't depend on others being online to be effective is optimal.  A solution that is always there when you're in the sim providing you realistic guidance day or night.  I realize this is a very complicated software challenge, but hope some enterprising developers see it as an opportunity.  ATC is a vital part of nearly every flying experience... to not have it available reduces the overall benefits of an in-depth flight simulator.



Doug Miannay

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8 hours ago, dmiannay said:

In my opinion, this is a excellent idea.  Asobo didn't seem bullish to include ATC at this time, at least for launch, so I'd love to see them make a way for third parties to fully integrate a solution for both ATC and AI.  For me, a solution that doesn't depend on others being online to be effective is optimal.  A solution that is always there when you're in the sim providing you realistic guidance day or night.  I realize this is a very complicated software challenge, but hope some enterprising developers see it as an opportunity.  ATC is a vital part of nearly every flying experience... to not have it available reduces the overall benefits of an in-depth flight simulator.

Yes, whatever gets put in there I really hope it doesn’t require speaking to real people. Maybe I’m in the minority, or old-fashioned, but I still find it a bit over the top actually speaking to pretend controllers in my pretend aeroplane. In the first stage I would be happy with something just like fsx, but with sids and stars featuring too. 

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10 hours ago, Greazer said:

ATC is a low priority. Advanced simmers use online networks. Many other simmers prefer No ATC.  For the rest there are always ATC add-ons for offline ATC. Very few use absolutely need default ATC and those are lower skilled rookie simmers.

That is absolutely not true. And one of the best examples of the wrong and elitist attitude some people seem to have developed.

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I fear some people are expecting too much from default ATC in MSFS. History has clearly proven that ATC is by far the hardest thing to get right for a flight sim. In the past decade almost everything has been covered to most people's satisfaction (planes, scenery, weather, etc.) but there isn't a single ATC solution that everyone likes and/or that's really good. I prefer ProATC and love it but it's far from perfect. IPACS has been working on ATC for a few years now (afaik it's the ONLY main feature they are working on) and we were promised a preview of it two years ago but we still haven't seen anything... Can we expect MS to deliver totally awesome ATC out of the box...? I don't think so. Or at least I don't expect so. Of course I hope so 😉 but I do think it's wise to keep our expectations low. There will be a lot of WOW features in MSFS that will blow other sims out of the sky but ATC won't be one of them, so I predict.

Edited by Reader
Corrected two typing errors

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I think we don t have to always look behind and say " look at them, they haven t be able to deliver in 2 years..." 

Everyone knows it is one of the most challenging features to implement in any sim.

But the difference is this sim is made right now with an excellent, numerous and implicated team wich wants to deliver the best product possible, not to mention they have total control of the native code and they can use Microsoft ressources.

Why rely on 3rd parties who will be more oriented to make business? (no judgement, everyone has to pay bills!)

But like they said, they have all the data available, they are in this with us, they are willing to do it, let them do it, even if it is not perfect at launch, they have the best chances to make the next gen ATC we have all dreamt of!

Edited by Noooch
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- VR: They cannot say at the moment whether it will be there on first release but they’re trying to prioritise it

Really? So they actually listen? The simulator is not ready for release before native VR support is implemented.

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5 hours ago, france89 said:

That is absolutely not true. And one of the best examples of the wrong and elitist attitude some people seem to have developed.

I tend to agree.  Only the very few niche simmers use online ATC.  Many of the people who don't visit forums and still bought FSX are likely just using stock ATC.  Of course there are some who is 3rd party software. 

I definitely doubt the majority don't want ATC.

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3 hours ago, Noooch said:

 

Why rely on 3rd parties who will be more oriented to make business? (no judgement, everyone has to pay bills!)

 

A good reason would that they are out there at least three "companies" (one has been disbanded but the the expersite is still with us) which have worked on the matter the last ten years or more. Their program are imperfect but one of them could be a nice baseline to start with.


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4 hours ago, Thac said:

 the simulator is not ready for release before native VR support is implemented.

I tell you what. Let them release the sim without VR, don't buy it and let us enjoy it as it is. 

Edited by domkle
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Dominique

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Great that they seem to be listening regarding VR. With every other sim offering native support, it makes 0 sense to release without this functionality. I`d rather wait some additional months and get this feature now that I am totally spoiled by it.

Edited by GCBraun
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16 hours ago, domkle said:

A good reason would that they are out there at least three "companies" (one has been disbanded but the the expersite is still with us) which have worked on the matter the last ten years or more. Their program are imperfect but one of them could be a nice baseline to start with.

I disagree completely. FSX ATC would be a nice baseline to start, 3rd parties are less numerous and less powerful than Asobo is right now. Just let them do all they can, a solid base, and if you are not satisfied enough, I am sure 3rd parties will have the opportunity to enhance it 🙂

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