Jump to content

Ray Proudfoot

Are 9/11 flight numbers still in use?

Recommended Posts

United 93, American 11 and 77 and United 175. I can’t imagine any of those flight numbers are still in use. Have they all be mothballed?

Share this post


Link to post

Scandinavian Airlines route to NY from CPH was 911, now 909 and 901

 

/Peter 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

No, some of the flights are still scheduled at those times I believe, but the flight numbers have changed. Interestingly I was reading an article about this recently (can't find it now) and it referred to a US flag flying at Newark Int'l at the gate from where UA93 departed from.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks chaps. I could understand the flight still happening but with a change of flight number. I can’t imagine the airlines and pax would want to fly on those numbers.

I’m surprised they fly a flag at the gate. Nervous pax wouldn’t want reminding of that event.

Share this post


Link to post

There are flags at each of the gates in boston and newark where the hijacked 9/11 flights departed. There is an extra flag at bos where after united moved from C to B terminals, they decided to put a flag at one of their new gates, which was not actually a 9/11 flight gate.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

IVAO network does not allow those flight numbers to be used.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

So no small discrete plaques at any of the airports? What is at Shanksville where 93 crashed?

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

United 93, American 11 and 77 and United 175. I can’t imagine any of those flight numbers are still in use. Have they all be mothballed?

Some yes. On 9/11, I worked for COA (Continental) and was present at our Newark (KEWR) company ramp tower, located adjacent to the FAA Tower*. I watched UAL93 depart Rwy 4L without any abnormalities. Several minutes later we were alerted by FAA to problems with UAL93 and began tracking the flight with our flight following, radar like software over Ohio. The datablock information** indicated a destination of KDCA (Washington Reagan National) which was not normal and a significant change from the planned KSFO destination. The rest is history.

If you check UAL93 on Flightaware, the data erroneously indicates the flight "landed" DCA more than 18 years ago. 

*Both FAA and company towers have been relocated

**Datablock Information  - This is information (altitude, GS, supplemental information) electronically displayed and associated with a radar target. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks Fr Bill. Every few years I watch United 93 and it never fails to shock. 18 years ago. Crikey.

Share this post


Link to post

The UAL93 movie is very accurate in many respects. Many of the controllers are not actors but real controllers from NY TRACON and EWR Tower. 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Les Parson said:

I watched UAL93 depart Rwy 4L without any abnormalities....

What a sad memory. Something you would rather forget I'm sure.

I know a Swiss engineer who was at Charles de Gaulle on 25 July 2000 and heard the AF Concorde take-off with a different noise than usual. He didn't see it which is probably fortunate.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Les Parson said:

The UAL93 movie is very accurate in many respects. Many of the controllers are not actors but real controllers from NY TRACON and EWR Tower. 

The director - Paul Greengrass - is a Brit and did a wonderful job of what must have been a very difficult story to relate. I knew many of the controllers were real world. Hard to imagine how they must have felt when it was made just 5 years after the atrocity.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The director - Paul Greengrass - is a Brit and did a wonderful job of what must have been a very difficult story to relate. I knew many of the controllers were real world. Hard to imagine how they must have felt when it was made just 5 years after the atrocity.

I know most of it was shot in London and their were unrelated ATC labour issues at the time and that has something to do with it. A former friend, Ben Sliney was originally a technical director but later took over and acting role. At the time, uncertainty and confusion was crazy. Many of the controllers relocated from FAA tower to our tower for fear of further attacks. The strongest memory for me is watching the twin towers come down. Most of the films you've likely seen were close but we were about two miles away, straight across the river. I remember saying: "...from now on, there will only be a single tower".  Of course that was proven wrong in just a few minutes. 

Share this post


Link to post

Ben Sliney is a name I remember from the credits. Wasn't he the main man who took the decision to shut down all US airspace? From there on in the film the action switches to UA93.

I can't begin to think what it must have been like to see such huge buildings collapse. Disbelief I would imagine until the reality sets in. I was at work that day and a colleague sent me an email around 14:15 British Time (09:15 US) saying a small aircraft had hit the WTC. I found an office with a radio and all work had stopped as everyone just listened to what was happening. I went home around 15:30 by which time both towers were down. A day no-one who was old enough will ever forget.

Share this post


Link to post

At the time, Ben Sliney was at the ATCSCC (ATC System Command Center) outside Washington, near IAD (Dulles) and yes, he made the decision as the one in charge on the floor. He later went to N90 (NY TRACON), where I met him. I last saw him about three years ago. The night before 9/11 was absolutely terrible with major thunderstorms and massive New York delays of several hours. Within the airline industry and east coast FAA, this is known as SWAP (Severe Weather Avoidance Plan) and a real headache for everybody. The next day, 9/11 was crystal clear without a single cloud anywhere. I first saw smoke from WTC driving up the New Jersey Turnpike with initial radio reports of a "light" aircraft hitting the tower. Many, including me, thought of a Cessna or light twin from Teteroboro (TEB) impacting the tower being a likely scenario. 

Share this post


Link to post

Les, it seems hard to imagine why the initial reports would put it down to a light aircraft when you see the size of the hole in tower 1. The only footage is from those French chaps making a film about NY firemen. But I suppose the speed it came in at would catch most people unaware.

Share this post


Link to post

I had just awakened and sat down in my living room to watch the news. By that time the first plane had hit and no one seemed to know just what had happened. I called my best friend on the phone waking him up and I said "Jim turn on your TV!" He asked "What channel?" and I replied "Any of them!"

I remained on the phone with him while he turned on his TV and we began watching events unfold together. He was watching at the time the second plane flew into the second tower. We were both horrified. I'll never get those images out of my mind, and they still haunt my dreams occasionally.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Les, it seems hard to imagine why the initial reports would put it down to a light aircraft when you see the size of the hole in tower 1. The only footage is from those French chaps making a film about NY firemen. But I suppose the speed it came in at would catch most people unaware.

Well, before there were any video or news reports available, conjecture set in rapidly about what people (me included) thought was the most rational. The people I was in contact with (FAA and Port Authority ops/law enforcement) had not seen nor were aware of any footage of a B757/767 impacting the towers. After all, the very idea of a transport class aircraft in VMC, without a cloud in the sky, impacting WTC was unthinkable. Therefore, It must have been a low-time, inexperienced pilot, or some bizarre suicide.

There were early reports of a NORDO AAL11, but that flight was under control of ZBW (Boston ARTCC) not by ZNY (New York ARTCC) or N90 (NY TRACON). 

Share this post


Link to post

Les, as shown very well in United 93 even amongst professional ATC staff they could hardly believe what they were witnessing. A day like no other.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, n4gix said:

I had just awakened and sat down in my living room to watch the news. By that time the first plane had hit and no one seemed to know just what had happened. I called my best friend on the phone waking him up and I said "Jim turn on your TV!" He asked "What channel?" and I replied "Any of them!"

I remained on the phone with him while he turned on his TV and we began watching events unfold together. He was watching at the time the second plane flew into the second tower. We were both horrified. I'll never get those images out of my mind, and they still haunt my dreams occasionally.

Pretty much mirrors my day as well, only I called my brother as soon as the second plane hit, same conversation, put the TV on....

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/10/2019 at 2:03 AM, Matthew Kane said:

Pretty much mirrors my day as well, only I called my brother as soon as the second plane hit, same conversation, put the TV on....

i was cabin crew and got stuck in Gander for a week on the VS45,  halcyon days.  I was a smoker back then.  I still remember to this day how expensive cigs where in Canada and noone in cnada smoked.

I also remember I only packed 3 pants of underwear and i was there a week. 

Edited by fluffyflops
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

i was cabin crew and got stuck in Gander for a week on the VS45,  halcyon days.  I was a smoker back then.  I still remember to this day how expensive cigs where in Canada and noone in cnada smoked.

I also remember I only packed 3 pants of underwear and i was there a week. 

Even though now I live in New Zealand but I am originally a Maritime Canadian, you guys had the best place in the world to be stranded for that week. Nothing beats Newfie Hospitality. My mother is a Newfie so I should know. Hope you got screeched in. 😎

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...