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pegruder

AI and/or ATC in MSFS

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I've been so impressed with how good the sim looks, I forgotten about a few key things.  Has there been any word of AI aircraft or any default built in ATC for MSFS?  All the videos I've seen I don't think I've heard anyone speak about those topics - although it could be just me not paying attention!

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Posted (edited)

Chris: The developers mentioned there was "AI" in the pre-alpha builds, but that they represented current r/l flights.  They can be seen from within the sim, but "you can't run into them" (no interaction). Upon landing they disappear while on the runways, IIRC.  As for ATC, they have discussed it.  They know it is a desire from the community, but it appears they were not planning for it to be included at launch.  Because of the communities interest, they may reconsider for launch, but more likely will consider it for a future release.

I'm sure others will weigh-in with additional details...

Edited by dmiannay

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27 minutes ago, dmiannay said:

Chris: The developers mentioned there was "AI" in the pre-alpha builds, but that they represented current r/l flights.  They can be seen from within the sim, but "you can't run into them" (no interaction). Upon landing they disappear while on the runways, IIRC.  As for ATC, they have discussed it.  They know it is a desire from the community, but it appears they were not planning for it to be included at launch.  Because of the communities interest, they may reconsider for launch, but more likely will consider it for a future release.

I'm sure others will weigh-in with additional details...

Gotcha.  Seems itll be kinda like XP11 AI if there's no ground routes, they touch down and disappear.  Hopefully that gets sorted out by release.  AI has always been bigger than ATC for me, especially if there's 3rd party support although it would be sick the more things built in the better.  MSFS should recruit the dev from VoxATC if hes still around.  That's been the best IMO since it controls everything.  Just needed a few bugs sorted out.

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27 minutes ago, dmiannay said:

Chris: The developers mentioned there was "AI" in the pre-alpha builds, but that they represented current r/l flights.  They can be seen from within the sim, but "you can't run into them" (no interaction). Upon landing they disappear while on the runways, IIRC.  As for ATC, they have discussed it.  They know it is a desire from the community, but it appears they were not planning for it to be included at launch.  Because of the communities interest, they may reconsider for launch, but more likely will consider it for a future release.

I'm sure others will weigh-in with additional details...

Live AI traffic has been confirmed. Is there any source to proof they can't be interacted with and disappear on the runway? I've been following the information closely and I can't recall any word about that.

Live AI traffic doesn't necessarily have to refer to depicting the AI where they are in the world at any time. It could as well be real world flights injected into the sim which then become subject to the sim world. The advantage here would be that you could get into sequence with sim traffic yourself. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a chance for example to squeeze in the queue for takeoff at a busy airport or maintain proper separation on final because the real world traffic obviously doesn't account for the user aircraft. I think that would be a bit of a mess. As for disappearing on the runway, talk about immersion killer...

With regards to ATC, all they actually said was that they only just starting discussing the topic. Whether it will be included from the start or come later or perhaps even not at all is just community speculation.

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1 minute ago, pegruder said:

Hopefully that gets sorted out by release. 

I couldn't agree more.  After watching all the videos and reading all the first-hand accounts of the Asobo/Microsoft event, I am encouraged and firmly believe the developers want to go way beyond FSX - and visually they already have - so I will be patient and watch with great interest.

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2 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Live AI traffic has been confirmed. Is there any source to proof they can't be interacted with and disappear on the runway? I've been following the information closely and I can't recall any word about that.

Yes, Niklas, it was said in one of the many videos or audios. I have watched so many that I can't direct you to the exact one.  I definitely would not have said this if I hadn't heard it.

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11 minutes ago, pegruder said:

Gotcha.  Seems itll be kinda like XP11 AI if there's no ground routes, they touch down and disappear.  Hopefully that gets sorted out by release.  AI has always been bigger than ATC for me, especially if there's 3rd party support although it would be sick the more things built in the better.  MSFS should recruit the dev from VoxATC if hes still around.  That's been the best IMO since it controls everything.  Just needed a few bugs sorted out.

Mmmmm kinda

 

The live traffic until it lands , then AI takes the yoke. 

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6 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Live AI traffic has been confirmed. Is there any source to proof they can't be interacted with and disappear on the runway? I've been following the information closely and I can't recall any word about that.

Live AI traffic doesn't necessarily have to refer to depicting the AI where they are in the world at any time. It could as well be real world flights injected into the sim which then become subject to the sim world. The advantage here would be that you could get into sequence with sim traffic yourself. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a chance for example to squeeze in the queue for takeoff at a busy airport or maintain proper separation on final because the real world traffic obviously doesn't account for the user aircraft. I think that would be a bit of a mess. As for disappearing on the runway, talk about immersion killer...

With regards to ATC, all they actually said was that they only just starting discussing the topic. Whether it will be included from the start or come later or perhaps even not at all is just community speculation.

Basically like the first time I flew with the addon PSX (I think thats the name) and tried to land at JFK at peak time.  It was the coolest thing I've ever seen with all the aircraft lined up on approach, but couldn't find a space to squeeze in!

It seems MS is going all in on this one, or least I hope so.  Should really shake up the current market to push harder and strive for better.  Competition is always a good thing, the only drawback being if someones invested a ton of money in to something as I have and Im sure most of us here.  Having to switch would kinda suck.  BUT - if most things are included in the stock sim, scenery/weather seem to be so - this certainly saves on investing.  I'd rather put my money towards quality payware aircraft and better controls then scenery, weather, and camera add ons (Sorry devs!).  I appreciate all these devs have done but good camera/view management and weather should be good out of the box to me.  XP default camera/view management is a perfect example for me.  It does everything I need it to out of the box, if I want more there still addons to improve the experience.  Anyway - Im getting off topic here - thanks for all the info folks!

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Live AI traffic has been confirmed. Is there any source to proof they can't be interacted with and disappear on the runway?

In the AVSIM interview they said that there's live traffic (visible, but you can't crash into them) and that AI takes over after landing and does the taxiing. That's in the current build so who knows, maybe they'll have full AI traffic upon release.

Edited by Shack95

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6 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

In the AVSIM interview they said that there's live traffic (visible, but you can't crash into them) and that AI takes over after landing and does the taxiing. That's in the current build so who knows, maybe they'll have full AI traffic upon release.

That's really good. It would be a real bummer if they simply disappeared and you have no ground traffic.

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21 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

In the AVSIM interview they said that there's live traffic (visible, but you can't crash into them) and that AI takes over after landing and does the taxiing. That's in the current build so who knows, maybe they'll have full AI traffic upon release.

Can you please show where they said this (bold text above)?  They definitely said they disappear after landing on the runway, but didn't hear AI takes over after that..  Don't want to get in a food fight here... really.  Just want to know if I indeed missed something they said.

Thanks.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, dmiannay said:

Can you please show where they said this (bold text above)?  They definitely said they disappear after landing on the runway, but didn't hear AI takes over after that..  Don't want to get in a food fight here... really.  Just want to know if I indeed missed something they said.

No problem. It's in the interview (36:40).

Edited by Shack95
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5 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

No problem. It's in the interview (36:40).

Yes, went back and listened again.  They said "most" real-world flights disappear on the runway, but some (if they have the data from the real world flight) do taxi to the gate.  So, that's a step in the right direction.  Thanks for the tip!

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4 minutes ago, dmiannay said:

 

I heard: "The data most often stops when they have finished landing. We don’t get them actually to taxi and all that. […] I’ve seen an aircraft with AI taking over and actually going to the taxi gate.”

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Posted (edited)

I was wondering right now. Wouldn't be easier to use the data of the flights instead of the real-time flight information? I mean, instead of following and depicting the flight live on the sim (like flightradar24 does), MS could just use the flightplans to inject the traffic. 

This way the simulator would have total control over the traffic (and would allow to interact with a future default ATC). They could even follow delays or cancellations if they had live data.

Edited by ca_metal
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23 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

I was wondering right now. Wouldn't be easier to use the data of the flights instead of the real-time flight information? I mean, instead of following and depicting the flight live on the sim (like flightradar24 does), MS could just use the flightplans to inject the traffic. 

This way the simulator would have total control over the traffic (and would allow to interact with a future default ATC). They could even follow delays or cancellations if they had live data.

This is what I was talking about in my first post in this thread. While it's intriguing to have aircraft at their (more or less) exact position as in the real world, the disadvantages of disappearing aircraft, no or little ground traffic, lost signals, etc. makes this worrisome for me. Personally, I'd much rather have real world flight plans for the day and time based on schedule (and delays) which are sent on their way under the full guidance of the sim. Like I said, you're going to have a hard time trying to squeeze in at a busy airport.

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1 minute ago, threegreen said:

This is what I was talking about in my first post in this thread. While it's intriguing to have aircraft at their (more or less) exact position as in the real world, the disadvantages of disappearing aircraft, no or little ground traffic, lost signals, etc. makes this worrisome for me. Personally, I'd much rather have real world flight plans for the day and time based on schedule (and delays) which are sent on their way under the full guidance of the sim. Like I said, you're going to have a hard time trying to squeeze in at a busy airport.

Not necessarily. They can deliver the feature with sliders where you could change the ammount of traffic you would like to have. Too many aircrafts when you are trying to fly? Just set the sliders lower and the sim will make some of the aircrafts disappear.

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4 minutes ago, threegreen said:

While it's intriguing to have aircraft at their (more or less) exact position as in the real world, the disadvantages of disappearing aircraft, no or little ground traffic

For most major airports, the positions are fairly accurate as there are a lot of ADS-B receivers available. But you do raise the other key issue with live traffic. Aircraft do not consistently keep their transmitters active on the ground. For live traffic to work correctly, the sim would have to manage the AI aircraft on the ground, which is not that hard to do.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

For most major airports, the positions are fairly accurate as there are a lot of ADS-B receivers available. But you do raise the other key issue with live traffic. Aircraft do not consistently keep their transmitters active on the ground. For live traffic to work correctly, the sim would have to manage the AI aircraft on the ground, which is not that hard to do.

Still the aircrafts would "jump" from the gate to the runway when the transponder is turned on. The A.I. can't predict that. 

Working with the schedules and flightplans would add more immersion to the sim, in my opinion. The plane not being on the exact place of the real life wouldn't a big deal to me. But having planes appearing and disappearing and colliding with our planes on the taxi route would be worst IMO. I mean, the data is available live, we can see when a flight is delayed or cancelled on real time, the sim could work perfectly with that.

Edited by ca_metal
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Live traffic "has a lot of promise", as the proponents often say, but it still needs some work to make it completely immersive. The best solution to date for me is to combine the real life AIG schedules with VOXATC controlling the AI aircraft.

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Posted (edited)

In the interview they mentioned that there were green dots in the preview event on the interface page. Those dots were the live air traffic and you could select any of them do to that specific flight. 

If they rely on FR24 data it’s not good enough. There are times that aircrafts shown on FR24 do crazy paths which is due to the inaccuracy of the receivers. I guess it’s better to collect the schedule of the airports and AI take over from the very beginning of the flight. 

Edited by raspian300

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If using live traffic, How can my little imaginary aircraft squeeze into DEP/APR chain at a very busy airport?

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If using live traffic, how can they direct you to line up, land, take off, etc (assuming there is some ATC.)  I think a vastly updated version of the AI traffic we already had would be better.

I say updated because as it is, even with the sliders on full, the skies are mostly empty.  I often fly around NYC (some of the busiest airspace in North America in reality) using P3D and I'll be the only one for as far as the eye can see.

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 "even with the sliders on full, the skies are mostly empty."

What AI prg.are you using? I always have plenty of AI in the skies around me near the major airports. I use only freeware ai, either from AIG or some I have installed myself.

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