October 10th - Insider Update

[Pedro Milanez 0]

On 10/10/2019 at 4:15 PM, ca_metal said:

I'm brazilian and saw the scenes of Guarulhos (near SBGR, the largest brazilian airport) in the video released last week and I can assure you the MS "autogen" models and placement are centuries ahead of what Orbx accomplished with their OpenLC South America.

As I said, anything Orbx would generate automatically with their data, I believe MS can do better. Because they have more resources.

But when you talk about handmade landmarks/airports/buildings/etc I will totally agree there will plenty of space to the 3rd parties. They will do a better job than the A.I.

Where did you see that? What vídeo?

[jaytee73 132]

"What I think you are referring to is what they are all calling Ultra HD - which is not 20x of HD (1080) - as is the pixel content of 4K - but an upscaled version of HD to 4k measurements and not the true RGB pixels of Genuine 4K"

@ vortex - David - and Decker - you used this as a Quote

I only got involved with this within the 2020 thread  - because it is the seeming worry that for MS 2020 - we would need a Super Highway Broadband of  MBS (megabytes). We Wont.!!

Microsoft is a very clever company - and cannot risk a product that cannot be used by the Masses. eg X Box works with great visuals - and doesn't use broadband - and super reactive to inputs - ie software designed for the purpose in specially designed mini computer. Does any body here - know what the guts of the Xbox are ie video card - cpu - memory etc - yet we use them - or I do - and I don't care to find out - I know I don't need Broadband except to "download" a high Gig game . the X-Box ONE - is a genuine 4K resolution box and  4K games in disc form come in specially marked boxes - but they also sell "Upscaled" old 360 HD games as well.The downloads of the better quality games are all at least 50GBs - and as High as 75 GBs (Orbx is not alone !!!).

Just as many people don't seem to be able to grasp the difference between megabits (Mbs) and Megabytes(MBs) - which are 8 mega bits to a Byte 

The term "resolution" - is just as difficult to pick up. 4K is just a way of expressing 3860pixels X 2160 pixels - and it does not define the Quality of each pixel - it is just a measure of Size. Think!! - it is the same pixel that gets Stretched exponentially - to fill  a number of larger TV screens i.e. - A pixel can be any size you like - it is the quality of the RGB content that matters in each pixel.

Earlier - I gave an example of quality of pixels comparing the photographic terms that can also be applied to TV pixels - Your mobile phone uses a software that takes a quality of pixels in Mps (megapixels) - (a quality compared to the Mbs ) - called .JPG - that is - a 1/4 of the quality of a true digital picture we call .BMPs - a measure of the quality in the number of bitmaps in a PIXEL. The same applies to a TV pixel.

Genuine "4K" TV is  filmed in a digital camera that  can give something similar to a still digital camera - e.g. a .BMP quality. "Ultra HD" is an upscaled 1960 x 1080 TV pixel - ie  Upscaled HD as we know it and used. The eventual quality depends upon how the software is used to expand exponentially - each pixel.  In photography I use an increase of 5% per step up - which helps to keep the stretch in control)

Some of us are familiar with "Frooglesim's" simulator videos on  U-Tube. He films all his recordings in genuine 4K - but he reverses the Upscale I just referred to - by "Downscaling' his  4K quality videos.  What's the betting that MS did the same for the videos in question. The picture on my monitor (4K TV) was just upscaled to give one better than sent out by the U-Tube HD. This how people actually view something on their 4K TVs - an upscaled picture.

Netflix - etc and now Foxtel - although they may have filmed in Genuine 4K - they are downscaling - or even upscaling old HD captures - and calling it ULTRA HD.

The difference between Digital HD - up or downscaled Ultra HD - is miles away from the quality of genuine 4K TV

Only one company transmits genuine 4K in Australia -  and that is Foxtel with one only channel - Fox 4K - and that is by satellite - because conventional broadband by cable cannot be guaranteed consistent Quality. I know that Skyfox in the UK do something similar via their dishes. I get Formula One racing in 4k - via foxtel

All my TV comes thro the satellite dish on my roof - provided by Foxtel - and as to reacting too inputs from me - I can assure you that when I press my remote for say a menu or channel change - the reaction via satellite is instantaneous in milliseconds - and as fast as my gaming mouse and keyboard. The only problem with satellite TV-  is when it rains hard and the signal is blocked. 

However - I withdraw my suggestion that "you get Dished" - for MS2020 - but if you want genuine 4K TV ------

Please guys - Microsoft are not so stupid as to provide something that cant be taken up by the masses - be it on PC or X-Box ONE

[anden145 2,273]

On 10/10/2019 at 10:39 PM, Ron Attwood said:

I noticed that to. No animals=No buy.

Buy Planet Zoo instead? 😄

 

[anden145 2,273]

8 hours ago, stripealipe said:

Phew.... for a tech alpha, Microsoft must be thinking 'wow' to some of these comments... #toughcrowd

To be fair - I don't think it was (meant as) a complaint. Merely an observation... 

[Deleted 250]

17 hours ago, raspian300 said:

Have anyone noticed the AI aircrafts in KSFO photo? They had the same livery and i guess that was some imaginary airline like Pacific and Orbit in previous versions. It seems that we still need some 3rd party to work on real AI traffic.

Because MS needs licenses for real airlines.

[Stratocruiser1 134]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:03 AM, ErichB said:

Considering that this is still an alpha build, it is hugely impressive. 

I may have to plan next year's vacation carefully and ensure I take a week off during release week.  One weekend will not be enough.

That release just might be at Flight Sim Expo in Las Vegas in June, I am thinking, But maybe not as they might want to make it a Christmas splash instead.

Howard

[vortex681 806]

5 hours ago, jaytee73 said:

Genuine "4K" TV is  filmed in a digital camera that  can give something similar to a still digital camera - e.g. a .BMP quality. "Ultra HD" is an upscaled 1960 x 1080 TV pixel - ie  Upscaled HD as we know it and used. The eventual quality depends upon how the software is used to expand exponentially - each pixel.  In photography I use an increase of 5% per step up - which helps to keep the stretch in control)

The very website you linked in one of your previous posts contradicts what you say above - https://www.foxtel.com.au/support/products-and-features/4k-ultra-hd-and-compatibility.html. Look at the first dropdown "What is 4K Ultra HD" which says that 4K or ultra HD is 20 times the resolution of SD. They even refer to it as Ultra HD from then on. There's a better explanation here: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/174221-no-tv-makers-4k-and-uhd-are-not-the-same-thing. What everyone refers to as 4K for TVs and monitors is Ultra HD and it has nothing to do with upscaling HD but everything to do with screen resolution.

5 hours ago, jaytee73 said:

Netflix - etc and now Foxtel - although they may have filmed in Genuine 4K - they are downscaling - or even upscaling old HD captures

Why would they even bother upscaling old HD content to broadcast as UHD? Your TV does that on its own without any intermediate steps from the broadcaster.

Edited October 12, 2019 by vortex681

[Torg Smith 31]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:01 AM, dtrjones said:

I don't want to be mean but that just sounds like you are bragging about a 400Mb connection. Are you seriously having doubts that will be enough?

If you listen to the FligthtSim.com interview (wow can I say that on here 😛?) then one of the devs says he plays at home on a 4Mb connection and can stream in high detail.

I have no doubts my former 70Mb was enough to stream the data. What I was wondering was if the 400 was enough for the max capabilities of their streaming setup. I did not see the 4Mb comment, so was unaware of it. Did they say the high detail was the max, or if it was just enough to use that setting?

[jaytee73 132]

Look - if you insist on just quoting what I said about ULTRA HD and quoting my URL saying "4Kor Ultra HD is 20 times the resolution of SD" - of course it is SD was the resolution before HD - and is still the output on free to air in Australia - HD has only been in use for about 2 years.

Please read where I said that 4K refers to the resolution 3860 X 2160 - ie approx. 4k pixel

What makes 4Ktv is the quality of those 4000 pixels in RGB terms - colours RED - Green - + Blue and how they are mixed. I.m not going to repeat my description of different states of those colours in terms of 32 bit or 64 bit etc - just accept what I said about upscaling fro Sd - or HD - or downscaling from genuine 4K pixels

Your last Para says it all that you haven't got the message.

Can you imagine what "I love Lucy" would look like on a 55"4k TV - if it hadn't been upscaled a dozen times - or current TV still used the old JVC videos in the raw state of the 90s.sporting programmes.

Sometime tomorrow - you are in the UK - somehow try to take a look at the F1 Grand Prix on Skyfox-  and look at the quality of the broadcast - particularly the opening sequences when they show old cuts from 10 years ago and compare them with todays transmission sequences. I don't know how Skyfox broadcast pure 4K TV - but I'll bet it's not down Cable - unless it is huge in MBs - and maybe for my curiosity- please tell me how Skyfox does actually Broadcast true 4k to a householder - and it wont be thro' all those little dishes outside the houses - that we see in photos.

 

[Grindathotte 44]

10 hours ago, jaytee73 said:

When I was learning how to fly back in the 70s - My CFI taught me to look at the trees - or grass - if I had the time - during Emergency landing practice😉

I remember training for a parachute jump; 200 ft is when you need to get ready for landing and is the height at which you can start to make out blades of grass.

[vortex681 806]

1 hour ago, jaytee73 said:

Please read where I said that 4K refers to the resolution 3860 X 2160 - ie approx. 4k pixel

What makes 4Ktv is the quality of those 4000 pixels

If you're going to argue your case, you need to start by getting your facts correct. What's generally referred to as 4K (wrongly, as it happens because true 4K is actually 4096 x 2160) has a horizontal resolution of 3840, not 3860. That gives it a pixel count of 8,294,400, not 4,000 (which doesn't even equate to 800 x 600). Also, the pixels in most 4K TVs are no better quality than those in Full HD TVs, there are just a lot more of them.

1 hour ago, jaytee73 said:

Can you imagine what "I love Lucy" would look like on a 55"4k TV - if it hadn't been upscaled a dozen times - or current TV still used the old JVC videos in the raw state of the 90s.sporting programmes.

Yes - and they still look pretty poor because there's only so much upscaling and post processing that your TV set can do. Your TV does the upscaling internally since the broadcaster has no idea what resolution screen you're watching on. See: https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/4k-upscaling-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-tvs-turn-hd-into-4k

1 hour ago, jaytee73 said:

I don't know how Skyfox broadcast pure 4K TV - but I'll bet it's not down Cable - unless it is huge in MBs - and maybe for my curiosity- please tell me how Skyfox does actually Broadcast true 4k to a householder - and it wont be thro' all those little dishes outside the houses - that we see in photos.

That's exactly how it does it! I can get true 4K TV programs and live broadcasts in the UK through my Sky Q satellite TV dish. Virgin in the UK do it through their cable connection. How else could they possibly be doing it if it wasn't through the cable or the dish?

Edited October 12, 2019 by vortex681

[jaytee73 132]

Ok I give up - if you only want to talk about resolution and numbers of pixels - not quality - you go your way - I'll go mine.

 

 

[vortex681 806]

2 minutes ago, jaytee73 said:

Ok I give up - if you only want to talk about resolution and numbers of pixels - not quality - you go your way - I'll go mine.

But 4K is all about resolution and the number of pixels. That's how it produces the quality of the image. If it was lower resolution with less pixels, it wouldn't be as good.

[raspian300 25]

10 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

To be fair - I don't think it was (meant as) a complaint. Merely an observation... 

U got it right. That was only an observation and wanted to share it with others. 

[decker89 110]

12 hours ago, jaytee73 said:

Genuine "4K" TV is  filmed in a digital camera that  can give something similar to a still digital camera - e.g. a .BMP quality. "Ultra HD" is an upscaled 1960 x 1080 TV pixel - ie  Upscaled HD as we know it and used.

Incorrect. See my previous post for the details.

Also there are NO "genuine 4k" TV's in the consumer market as all the consumer TV's being sold today are 16:9 aspect ratio. The 16:9 version of 4k is what we call UHD. 

Remember native 4k is not 16:9, it is wider. UHD is simply the same Pixel density as Native 4K but in a 16:9 format.  UHD is NOT upscaled from HD (1920x1080) as you mentioned.  

Just making sure people have the correct info here. 

As it relates to the flight sim, if the sim is indeed native 4k and not UHD, than what you will see when playing it through your tv is small black bars at the top and bottom of your tv screen as the true 4k image is slightly wider aspect ratio than your tv.

You can see this if you watch a native 4k (non UHD) movie on your TV. You'll see the small black bars at top and bottom. If it's a UHD movie it will fill in your TV completely.