I'm expecting PMDG on day one

[suncoastflyer 685]

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Are you comparing FPS in a default MSFS vs. a fully loaded P3D or XP11?  In a default P3D all maxed (and I do mean all) out I average 82 FPS

I was about to seriously look at my PC until I re-read that sentence and saw "default P3D'. Whew! I was about to cry and ask how.

[Pastaiolo 1,686]

8 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I would be perfectly happy with MSFS running at 30 FPS at a highly detailed airport (KORD) with 100% AI traffic, 20% road/boat traffic, ATC, extreme weather with snow/rain, and dynamic lights and reflections, and PBR, and ground service vehicles and passengers all doing their thing in a highly complex aircraft (like FSLabs or PMDG or ...) with the latest Navigraph cycle and generating leading edge vortices, wheel spray, brake dust, engine water spout, jet blast/wash  ... and that's exactly what I can get right now in P3D.

Have you or anyone seen all this working in MSFS yet?  Every single one of these features is going to add load to CPU/GPU.

Are you comparing FPS in a default MSFS vs. a fully loaded P3D or XP11?  In a default P3D all maxed (and I do mean all) out I average 82 FPS.  I get the quest for FPS, but you should know there is no magical code based on "age" ... there are compiler options, CPU specific instruction sets, there are GPU accelerated features all of which are hardware dependent (and not everyone has the supporting hardware), there is rendering pipeline order (which is give and take).

Don't get me wrong, I love what I see in MSFS, but it's still has a long way to go to catch up with P3D which MS has acknowledged and over time MS will add the features and it will be realized ... then lets revisit FPS for a more valid feature to feature compare.  Like I've said before, I imagine MSFS will sell like hot cakes on day 1 even without these features we have today ... they will come eventually but don't expect your FPS to stay locked at 60.

Cheers, Rob.

I just think that in 2019 we are hopefully capable of achieving better fps in a complex environment such as flight simulators compared to a graphic engine that, with all the tweaks and what not, was created 13 years ago. DCS is a good benchmark of that in the way that while lacking some features, avionics wise and flight model wise there are way more calculations.

The visual quality MSFS gives, at least for the scenery, is superior to both P3D and XP11 right now. But sure, we can't compare apples with oranges and that's why we'll have to really compare MSFS with XP12 and P3D v5 most likely. We'll see.

[simbol 5,774]

9 minutes ago, france89 said:

The visual quality MSFS gives, at least for the scenery, is superior to both P3D and XP11 right now. But sure, we can't compare apples with oranges and that's why we'll have to really compare MSFS with XP12 and P3D v5 most likely. We'll see.

From high altitudes YES, however I think airports looks blurry when you are at the ground.. in my view XP11 and P3D have graphics for the airports at this point in time.

This is my personal opinion, many will disagree, etc. save the trouble arguing with me please.. I will ignore.. I am entitled to say what I think 😂

S.

[suncoastflyer 685]

1 hour ago, simbol said:

From high altitudes YES, however I think airports looks blurry when you are at the ground.. in my view XP11 and P3D have graphics for the airports at this point in time.

This is my personal opinion, many will disagree, etc. save the trouble arguing with me please.. I will ignore.. I am entitled to say what I think 😂

S.

I think I agree. But only goes for addon scenery of course. Some of the airports coming out now with integrated PBR and dynamic lights look really good, but, I can't say I'm buying them due to the uncertainty of the future at the moment.

[vortex681 806]

On 13 October 2019 at 10:59 PM, LHookins said:

I've been saying this since about the second week.  They've already had a couple of years that they could have been working on an aircraft for the new sim.

I really don't think that they've had any significant involvement with the new sim up to this point. Take a look at their official response to the announcement of the sim: https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/14257-12jun19-pmdg-and-the-microsoft-flight-simulator-2020-question. There's too much detail in there. If you're under an NDA, if forced you tend to come out with short, bland, non-committal statements rather than comments like:

"As of this moment, nobody in our part of the marketplace is even aware if the title will allow for after-market development"

and:

"All of us would love to see a new, modern technology platform that remains open-world to developers like PMDG, but it is highly unlikely (given recent history) that this will happen"

That says to me that PMDG had no prior involvement in the sim before it was announced.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

Asobo said that they are still designing the aerodynamics 1000-point architecture with feedbacks from their own learning on how to fly a real GA aircraft.  That part, at least, couldn't be made available to 3PD yet.

System modeling (engines, electricals, hydraulics, nav etc.) would also be dependent of the new sim architecture. I doubt that things are ready. They would have said it.

But I would guess that 3D models with their textures are designed outside any sim and would be ready to be exported to FS20 formats as soon as the sim is released.

.

[G-RFRY 1,705]

Unless they had an SDK two years ago then no third party can work on a product for MSFS, and they said they were working on the SDK still, it`s like asking a builder to build a house with no plan`s.

[Mace 1,902]

Cepact / OP -- I'd say you should temper your expectation of having PMDG on day 1 of the new sim.

I've seen the threads vortex linked to above.  I reached the same conclusion that he did...that they didn't know about the sim until it was announced.  It is no simple matter for PMDG's modellers to take their existing 3D models and simply export them using the new SDK's plugins, or whatever they end up using.  It's probable/likely that entirely new mapping would have to be done.  And I haven't even mentioned the new sim's special effects, like the rain effects.

[Christopher Low 5,331]

...or the completely new flight model.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Christopher Low

[ckyliu 1,749]

@dmiannay

On 10/14/2019 at 8:20 PM, DavidP said:

Simmers amaze me - they want all the bells and whistles, they want their desktop sim to have a level of reality approaching a Level D sim, they want the scenery to replicate the real world down to the nearest centimetre, yet the don't want to pay for the work involved.

Thank you taking my words completely out of context; I never even implied I wanted everything for nothing. I have plenty of payware from many developers, some of which I have paid to have on both FSX and P3D. However I regard PMDG's (and a few other developers) pricing policies towards existing owners (or as they would say "holders of non-transferable entertainment use licence") for P3D ports to be taking advantage of customers. And I stuck by my word, I voted with my wallet and forwent those aircraft in P3D. I shall be doing the same with MFS, unless I think the price justifies the work involved in the port.

 

For clarity I am only talking about buying products one already owns for another platform. Although I really do hope premium P3D addon pricing dies a death with MFS and we go back to FSX addon prices, but I can't see that happening, devs have got too use to the income.

Edited October 15, 2019 by ckyliu

[dtrjones 356]

On 10/14/2019 at 1:35 AM, Rob_Ainscough said:

Oh my, trying to determine if I've entered the Twilight Zone or reached the Outer Limits 🙂 

So you think the new sim started with Microsoft coding SDK to support third party aircraft before they even had a working core product?  How's that work?

I love to see the enthusiasm, but wow, some of the thread topics being started lately ... don't worry, I'm sure PMDG, FSLabs, etc. will eventually have a product for MSFS ... patience is a virtue.

Cheers, Rob.

I read somewhere that they had been in development for 3 years already and will be delivering an early version of the SDK with the tech alpha. I suspect though that the SDK will be very limited to what they have 'nailed down' as you said much of the core sim experience is still being fleshed out so I think there's very little chance of a PDMG heavy jet being released on launch of FS2020 but I'm hopeful of some smaller plane and scenery releases shortly after launch.

[dtrjones 356]

On 10/13/2019 at 8:56 PM, cepact said:

If PMDG is already in contact with Microsoft/Asobo and have early access to the SDK/Tech Alpha and have access to the team for tech support , then there is no reason why we wouldn't have at least one of the PMDG aircrafts available on release day

think of it, they have everything, the game, the SDK, and I imagine they can call or visit the team whenever they want to get information

I'm expecting you'll be disappointed! 😛

 

[penta_a 428]

I think PMDG acknowledged (indirectly) that we are going to have something from their factory not far away from MSFS release date or this is what I understood from their latest post, (talked too much and said nothing), but we can take a hint.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/22497-15oct19-silence-suspicion-and-the-world-of-flight-simming

[Dominique_K 10,133]

5 minutes ago, penta_a said:

I think PMDG acknowledged (indirectly) that we are going to have something from their factory not far away from MSFS release date or this is what I understood from their latest post, (talked too much and said nothing), but we can take a hint.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/22497-15oct19-silence-suspicion-and-the-world-of-flight-simming

Loved @Alan_A’s post in response to Randazzo’s message. 

[YMMB 234]

Hopefully the part:

Quote

having lots to say but not having the authority to say it 

is the most true of the three options suggested for not saying much at this time...