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I'm expecting PMDG on day one

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Add to that the big announcement at the 2018 show is it a plane or superman no a product that's been worked on for 10 YEARS.


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Raymond Fry.

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Jorg Neumann mentioned in the AVSIM-Interview that they have approached third party developer only after the E3 this year. SO they are clearly not working on anything for MSFS 2020 "since years"!

He also stated that with some third party developers the cooperation picked up the pace quickly and that some developers are even visiting the Asobo studios the very day they gave that interview. So there is something in the works. Jorg Neumann did, however, not specify who is already "on board".

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You might expect something from the likes of Carenado on day one, a more simple plane with not too complex systems. But I wouldn't expect something from the likes of PMDG, chances are really small that will happen. Not saying it won't, as we absolutely do not know anything about the conversion pipeline they may offer (or not), but you better adjust your expectations.  

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8 minutes ago, Flamingpie said:

If you don't buy PMDG stuff it will be PMDG-free forever. 😉 I wonder why you would want to keep MSFS PMDG-free. I don't use any PMDG products but I see no reason in MSFS staying PMDG-free...?

Either it's due to the hope that some people have that the default aircraft will be sufficiently good for them to not need 3rd party payware, or possibly due to the fact that as good as PMDG products are, there is space for less systems-detailed, more frequently updated and lower-priced Boeing add-ons.

As much as I like PMDG's 737NGX, I'm very glad that QualityWings did the 787. Competition brings new ideas, new products and a focus on what customers want.

On a related point, I hope that MSFS is a catalyst for all developers to take a look at all facets of their products plus after-sales and realise that the way they have done things before won't necessarily be as successful in the new sim. Payware add-on fatigue by current simmers and new customers used to a gaming console, Steam-type experience might be the jolt some developers need to make them more customer-friendly.


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17 hours ago, n4gix said:

That is a mighty conjecture based on only the premise of "if..."

At this juncture there is precisely zero evidence that anyone has "early access" to an SDK, much less a working version of MSFS.

To the contrary, it is a near certainty that the earliest access 3pd devs will have will be once it moves into the Beta testing cycle. Why is this most likely the case? Simple logic. The SDK will need to be Beta tested as well, and there's no better time.

My understanding from their presentation itself is that they have been in contact with 3rd party developers. It is not unreasonable at all to suggest that several are under NDAs and they have early access and are receiving advice on any peculiarities from the existing SDK of FSX.  MS has been extraordinarily more candid and open   ever since Satya Nadella became the CEO. Rolling out quality aircraft like PMDG products with the release of MS' new product would be quite consistent with the new MS. Indeed, the fact that the guttiing of FSX was particularly with respect to terrain/graphics generation likely weather as well I would not be surprised that the core FSX which would be fairly stable and consistent would be the SDK related to aircraft parameters, ATC, traffic AI etc.

 


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Microsoft said they would contact major third party developers such as PMDG, or FlyTampa or ORBX to include their products on the new simulator. I'll say we should wait a bit and see what they tell us, FS2020 is still in WIP and I do not think that the SDK was released because the sim is still in techAlpha. Be patient and enjoy your addons on P3Dv4 ...😊

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I'm hoping that All my ORBX regions and ORBX GLobal, Vector and OpenLC work in MSFS 2020 so I can make it look like Prepar3D from day 1 😁

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1 hour ago, Flamingpie said:

If you don't buy PMDG stuff it will be PMDG-free forever. 😉 I wonder why you would want to keep MSFS PMDG-free. I don't use any PMDG products but I see no reason in MSFS staying PMDG-free...?

PMDG is not a charity. I won't buy something from them in the hope they will continue to work.

My reasons are:
1) Overpriced addons (and the whole thing about prices for P3D). In XP instead we saw what a dedicated person (Zibo) managed to do, for free.
2) I do expect them to sell the same addons with the same features. If i want to fly my 737 or 777 again, i'll use current simulators. If they want to get in on MSFS, i expect them to sell new addons or at least offer their addons adapted to the new possibilities of MSFS, not just as an easy way to push in their old addon and make more money with it without having done anymore more for it.
3) In a MSFS PMDG-free environment there might be better chances for other developers to rise to the task and offer different kind of planes we have not seen before

 

Edited by france89
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Chock 1.1: "The only thing that whines louder than a jet engine is a flight simmer."

 

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27 minutes ago, france89 said:

 

Tell me if I understant it well.

You want to deprive fellow simmers of addons they like the best because :

- you don't like PMDG pricing policy. Why if others richer than you don't care about the price ?  

- you don't think they should make for FS20 the aircraft they have perfected over the years, which seems strange to me

- you think that chances are that new dev would bring new aircraft to the market. Why,  I dont clearly see the cause-effect relationship ? 

So my question is what do you really gain in a "PMDG free environment" except having other people unhappy  ?

Edited by domkle
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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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1 hour ago, domkle said:

Tell me if I understant it well.

You want to deprive fellow simmers of addons they like the best because :

- you don't like PMDG pricing policy. Why if others richer than you don't care about the price ?  

- you don't think they should make for FS20 the aircraft they have perfected over the years, which seems strange to me

- you think that chances are that new dev would bring new aircraft to the market. Why,  I dont clearly see the cause-effect relationship ? 

So my question is what do you really gain in a "PMDG free environment" except having other people unhappy  ?

I don't want to deprive anybody. This is what i wish for, which clearly isn't what you wish for 🙂 I am free to spend my money how i see fit just like them, the same applies for opinions.
Perfected over the years is very debatable, and so is the list of innovations in their products since the offering on FSX. Besides what would be coming would be something perfected for the ESP platform, with all its limitations. This might not necessary apply to MSFS.

I am tired of developers selling the same product over and over again. Some did from FS9 to FSX, then P3D (at even an increased price for the reasons we know). Now they are hoping to do it in MS. This is the exact stagnation for which i am always against retro compatibility. They'll continue to try to make money with the same offering and i see no reason why i would spend my money on that.

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Chock 1.1: "The only thing that whines louder than a jet engine is a flight simmer."

 

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25 minutes ago, france89 said:

I don't want to deprive anybody.  

That seems to me in utter contradiction with your wish of a PMDG free environment 😃 !

What I wish ? To see all the  best companies which have built the hobby over the years on deck. 

I don't own a PMDG aircraft because this is not my type of flying (maybe in FS20 though,  who knows ?) . I don't want, I don't buy. Easy enough. Wanting them off FS20 is beyond my feeble comprehension.  

 

Edited by domkle
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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MFS Standard version with Steam

 

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To be honest I've been surprised that PMDG has been so inactive for many months after the 747 was released, they have been doing smaller bits of work and not announced any major aircraft release.  My guess is they probably knew about MSFS and made the smart decision not to make another big investment on the current flight sim.  Whether we can expect a PMDG aircraft from day 1, I think is unlikely.  If they want to make it PMDG quality then there is no way they can deliver that in time.  This is a whole new platform, a whole new set of rules and learning for their developers and they are a small team.

@france89 I have to agree with you to a certain extent.  The pricing for a lot of well established add-on providers that effectively have a monopoly in what they do is over the top.  For example, I bought the PMDG 777-200LR and PMDG 777-300ER expansion for FSX, probably cost me like $130 or something in total.  Then P3D got released and if I remember correctly, PMDG was expecting us to all pay for brand new copies of the same planes again, at the same prices to work on P3D.  PMDG didn't get my custom again, because as a Software Engineer myself, I know full well that the amount of effort required to port those aircraft over to P3D was no where near the amount of money they were requesting to upgrade my existing copy to that platform.  Equally, I bought the HiFi Sim Active Sky Next for P3Dv3, it wasn't cheap.  Months later P3Dv4 came out and guess what, it's not supported and I have to buy it again.  The "upgrade" option was present but grossly overpriced considering very little work was required to update it to P3Dv4.  Ofcourse they will claim the opposite as it's in their best interest to do so.

I can understand why these small companies do it, they spend an insane amount of time on these plugins and get very little money back (as their customer base is small), so they will use every opportunity to overprice their work and get their small user base to pay them again and again and again.  What they don't realise is they end up alienating, annoying and putting off loyal customers like you and me who out of principle refuse to buy something again when it's hardly changed.  Had they been smart and asked for a smaller reasonable sum to upgrade to the next platform, then they probably would have made more money than losing out on customers.  I'm sure they can see how many customers didn't opt for upgrade and what a missing opportunity that was.

So in a way I am also glad to be rid of some of these monopolised add-ons, but equally, and this refers to PMDG only, I am truely appreciative of the insane level of detail they have gone into with their products.  There are very few companies on this planet that would work to that level of detail for such little reward.

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PVA1103 Robert Stevens

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I don't mind paying all over for PMDG in the MS2020. They are so worth it! I can't wait for one of their 737,777 or their 747 for MS2020

Manny


Manny

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Even with me having the means, I strongly dislike paying for the same add on over and over and over. I really liked what QW did with the 787-10 and will buy the next addon from them without thinking about it. That said, whichever addon developer who can get a quality plane to MSFS2020 will make a small fortune IMO. Here's hoping it's a fair (price-wise) and honest (as candid as possible) developer.


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1 hour ago, domkle said:

That seems to me in utter contradiction with your wish of a PMDG free environment 😃 !

What I wish ? To see all the  best companies which have built the hobby over the years on deck. 

I don't own a PMDG aircraft because this is not my type of flying (maybe in FS20 though,  who knows ?) . I don't want, I don't buy. Easy enough. Wanting them off FS20 is beyond my feeble comprehension.  

 

That's okay, maybe i didn't explain myself properly.

But again, i am not depriving anyone. If they want to use their precious PMDGs, they can use current simulators. You know, those they have been using for over a decade? Together with those "i get 20 fps but it's smooth", "performance is bad because this is the only sim which draws the whole world" etc etc etc

The main argument however is that i think retrocompatibility is bad. Always have been. It's an incentive for developers (especially some) to never innovate. And why would they when they can make money with less effort?
But they got so used to it that when P3D started to release versions which did require adaptations to their products, we saw how long it took and how they were not used to that.
On top of that is the fact that a new simulator with a new engine requires for me a clear cut with what have been developed before. Especially if you think that what have been developed before have been done so with a certain logic (as in, to fit into a certain simulator with certain strong points and requirements).

 

I want new things, i want new technology just like we are getting in the scenery department. And who do you think is able to deliver? Those who kept selling the same addon since 2006 or new developers who have to learn how things today are from the start? Who perhaps also can focus on new plane since they have no previous material to try to resell either.

Edited by france89
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Chock 1.1: "The only thing that whines louder than a jet engine is a flight simmer."

 

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