Check this out, PMDG to MSFS!

[DAD 2,650]

16 hours ago, Farlis said:

That is the final nail in the coffin for P3D for me..

and definitely for XP:

 Effective immediately, we are no longer evaluating an Xplane development cycle at any point in the current five year window, nor do we see any active XPlane development time being allocated at PMDG.

Edited November 8, 2019 by DAD

[eslader 1,779]

1 hour ago, domkle said:

 I understand that the sim may have two flight architectures to choose from : a legacy one and the 1000-point one in construction.  The next EP may shed some light  about what PMDG knows.

Exactly. I'm guessing the first release of the 737 for FS will be a port of what they were developing for p3d - it's the only way they could possibly get a product to market anywhere close to the release date of 2020.

Don't get me wrong, it will probably still be fantastic, but it most likely won't use the new flight modeling. That'll come in an update.

 

 

[Murmur 3,941]

9 minutes ago, DAD said:

and definitely for XP:

 Effective immediately, we are no longer evaluating an Xplane development cycle at any point in the current five year window, nor do we see any active XPlane development time being allocated at PMDG.

Flawed logic. PMDG has never seriously developed for XP (except for a very niche, single product) and has hence had zero impact on XP sales. So I don't see how PMDG continuing to do what they did (i.e. do not develop for XP) would impact XP.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

8 minutes ago, DAD said:

and definitely for XP:

 Effective immediately, we are no longer evaluating an Xplane development cycle at any point in the current five year window, nor do we see any active XPlane development time being allocated at PMDG.

Its user base has tendency to think that PMDG is the center of the sim universe . It is not. They were quasi-absent of the XP market except for one plane for Xp10 (haven't we heard people complaining again and again that the DC6 was not adapted to XP11 !) and A2A, Carenado, Milviz  and the like are as important for the P3D market. 

[eslader 1,779]

3 minutes ago, Murmur said:

So I don't see how PMDG continuing to do what they did (i.e. do not develop for XP) would impact XP.

I think it's tangentially related. PMDG is abandoning p3d. P3d is the main competition to Xplane at the moment (not that LM considers themselves to be in the same market, but still).

From everything we've seen, 2020 is going to be a much better sim than Xplane. With devs like PMDG choosing to focus entirely on the new sim, that's *another* nail in the coffin for Xplane - not only is the base sim better, but the best developers are on that platform too.

I don't think it will kill Xplane because it's still a passion project and I don't think Austin really cares how many copies he sells. But I do think there's gonna be a lot fewer people buying Xplane or addons for it.

As a side note, if we're really lucky, Aerobask will start developing for 2020 -- that's one XP developer that I've been wishing would come into the p3d space. They do really nice little private jets.

 

[MattNischan 3,778]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

Exactly. I'm guessing the first release of the 737 for FS will be a port of what they were developing for p3d - it's the only way they could possibly get a product to market anywhere close to the release date of 2020.

The interesting thing about planes as complex as the 737 is that PMDG already does a fair bit of flight modeling entirely outside of the sim, in their own external code. In a sense, as the plane gets so complicated that almost all the code is outside the sim, you really don't need to use the SDK as much. The 737 is sending position updates to the sim but the plane is not exactly "flying" using the FSX/P3D flight model. This approach is used by other devs as well with complex flight models.

All that code PMDG has in external libraries that govern the 737s systems, like the flight director, FMC, glass gauges, the vast majority of that is only talking with other external code. Because of this, saying it is going to be a "port" of the P3D version doesn't really have the implications or negative connotation that is being implied here. It's all mostly code outside the sim to begin with, the porting effort is generally in changing the existing calls into the SDK into the new SDK calls and recertifying the code through testing. I think, honestly, the bigger effort there is going to be in updating the art assets to the quality standards that would be expected in MSFS using the new material system, and changing all the glass cockpit painting code to the Asobo's new glass cockpit API (if that offers performance and texture fidelity advantages, which it appears to). If the Asobo flight modeling capabilities are up to par, I would imagine PMDG would also want to ditch their own custom modeling code, as that keeps the codebase lighter, as well as integrates the most natively with all the little new dynamics in the sim, such as the wind gusts and turbulence.

Additionally, I keep seeing people make the claim that the plane will be released synchronously with MSFS; the PMDG announcement makes no such indication that I can see.

-Matt N

[tjstreak 53]

It's all lies and propaganda until it's in my grubby little hands.

Developers make all sorts of promises concerning unreleased products.  Sometimes those claims are true.  More often they are exaggerations and marketing hype.  The marketing guys get ahead of the development guys.

I just purchased the 737NGXu for P3d v4.  Fs Elite stated that the purchase price of $99.00 would be credited towards the purchase of the 737NG3 when it is released.  So I get the best of both worlds.  (I hope PMDG honors this.)

[eslader 1,779]

14 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Because of this, saying it is going to be a "port" of the P3D version doesn't really have the implications or negative connotation that is being implied here.

You're entirely correct, and I didn't mean for it to sound like I think the "port" is a bad thing. Just that they've got their own modeling going on and will almost certainly not be transitioning to the MSFS modeling in the first release.

 

Honestly, aside from the pure curiosity that comes from being a geek, when I'm acutally simming, I don't care how the flight modeling works. As long as the plane behaves as close to the way the real plane as possible, they can use any flight model they want.

[Spitty 11]

5 hours ago, Baber20 said:

No but probably an airport with state of the art feature set where you will actually be able to walk inside terminal buildings.

Well, based on the first video, that already looks to be done. 
If cities can be accurately depicted, I don’t see why most airports and airfields can’t be. 

And I don’t understand why anyone would WANT orbx involved. I don’t want to shell out hundreds of dollars+ for scenery add-ons that aren't really needed. 
 

 

[Dominique_K 10,133]

19 minutes ago, Spitty said:

 

And I don’t understand why anyone would WANT orbx involved. I don’t want to shell out hundreds of dollars+ for scenery add-ons that aren't really needed. 
 

 

Asobo said that they can't/won't bring a detailed modeling to the 44,000-odd airports of the sim (surprise !)  and that there will be a large scope for 3PD airports.  Plenty of us expect that the talented developers at Orbx  and other similar companies will still be here to offer their great products. If you don't want to buy any, don't force yourself.

 

 

[Greazer 1,320]

Zibo 737 is my fav plane, so I'm looking forward to getting the NG3 for FS 2020. However I think NG3 will run in "compatibility mode".  I think there will be some downsides to that, ie basic flight model. And then I think a few years later they will be asking for more money for a native aircraft model with proper flight model etc.

Greazer.

[F737MAX 5,543]

28 minutes ago, Spitty said:

If cities can be accurately depicted, I don’t see why most airports and airfields can’t be. 

They are, we've seen glances of them in teaser videos.

Like previous Microsoft FS titles, a select few default airports are going to be done to a more detailed standard than the vast majority of the 40,000.
As a reasonable guess, LAX, LHR and Courchevel appear to be these 'more detailed' default. However, we don't know yet how the 'basic' default airports look up-close, as in, at the gate, close.

30 minutes ago, Spitty said:

And I don’t understand why anyone would WANT orbx involved. I don’t want to shell out hundreds of dollars+ for scenery add-ons that aren't really needed. 

You won't have to.
However, a lot of us like the top-end Flightbeam, FlyTampa major airports and the Orbx small airfields and are willing to pay for them.
It's the little details that make them come alive for us. As good as Asobo and MS are, I don't think my local GA airfield is going to be procedurally generated to the same high standard as an Orbx developer who has spent spending months creating it.

[bonchie 2,305]

Just a random opinion, but with the discussion going on about which flight model it might use, I'm kind of unconcerned with that. 

It's a 737. You are flying it on autopilot 98% of the time anyway. It feels fine in P3D to me. 

[Greazer 1,320]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

I don't think it will kill Xplane because it's still a passion project and I don't think Austin really cares how many copies he sells. 

FS 2020 is the best thing to happen to XP. They are now Forced to upgrade the environment and scenery. The dev roadmap will change completely.

[Spitty 11]

22 minutes ago, domkle said:

Asobo said that they can't/won't bring a detailed modeling to the 44,000-odd airports of the sim (surprise !)  and that there will be a large scope for 3PD airports.  Plenty of us expect that the talented developers at Orbx  and other similar companies will still be here to offer their great products. If you don't want to buy any, don't force yourself.

 

 

Don’t worry, I don’t buy ANY orbx products. A little overrated and very overpriced in my opinion. 
 

Hopefully some very talented freeware developers will get on board and we can get some nice airports for free. Not a big deal since an aircraft spends most of its time...surprise surprise...in the air.