PMDG NG3 for the MSFS2020 will cost $139.99

[Dominique_K 10,138]

 

50 minutes ago, sightseer said:

 

I would agree on one thing, Dave.  All our arguments are ultimately founded upon our political views, in the wide acceptance of the term. Is that bad ? When I was young, we used to say, everything is political. Being older, mellower, I'd say a lot of things are political 😏. 

I may be too naive (I don't think I am but I am biased here ) but I don't see anybody here paid to sway the public opinion in favor of any corporate entity.  

I came back to Avsim when the new sim was announced after a RPG binge. I was horrified by the schadenfreude of some, rejoicing of a future demise of the cottage industry which has made our hobby what it is. Make no mistake, some (and I don't target individuals of this thread) not only heap garbage on PMDG at 140 dollars a pop but also on Orbx which sells beautiful airports at 12 bucks apiece. Since 2k2 there is a freeloading mentatlity in this hobby that I do not like. Everything is due. Everything should be freeware or at least cheap as dirt. Nope. The search for profit has given us the toys we never would have gotten with freeware (I love freeware, I've made some).

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by domkle

[sightseer 895]

5 minutes ago, domkle said:

...

I may be too naive (I don't think I am but I am biased here ) but I don't see anybody here paid to sway the public opinion in favor of any corporate entity.  

...

I didnt actually say anybody on here was paid to sway public opinion. I was speaking in general about all of the people who get paid to make people think a certain way whether its true or not.  

Public opinion is a bit like a forest fire.  you dont have to be on fire to be effected by it.  It shapes the world around you. 

I was speaking in broad terms and not about the flight simulation market. 

[Alan_A 1,650]

2 hours ago, domkle said:

I see a FS20 two-tier jetliner market :

- PMDG, FSlabs, Majestic : High fidelity, very high price.

 - IFly, QW, CaptainSim, Aerosoft : excellent quality but not high fidelity and a little less expensive.

What I wonder is, which of them will be the OEM for a jet sold under the MS brandname 😄 ?

Excellent breakdown (and I agree with your OEM point).

It'd be interesting to add Leonardo to the mix.  Maybe a complicating factor - a full-feature airliner at something closer to a mid-market price.  As with PMDG, we'd have to know more about their economics and their business priorities to understand why they've set their pricing the way they have.

Reading through this thread, I'm also struck by the way that PMDG serves, yet again, as a lighting rod when others don't.  For example, I've never seen equivalent rage directed at A2A, which asks FSX customers to make a new, full purchase if they want to move to P3D - and charges a premium for one of the P3D options based on the license terms, even though the product is identical across P3D licenses.  Not saying they're right or wrong to do it, only that the mob never seems to show up at their gates. Why?  Because they've got a smaller community that's more likely to be on board with them?  Because people like their customer-service style better than they do PMDG's?  Hard to say, but it doesn't seem totally consistent.

And speaking of inconsistencies - here we've got a subset of the community that's all worked up about escalating prices. But when Aerosoft offers a mid-priced Airbus series with a pretty rich feature set, the reaction is, "Oh, no, the Aerosoft Airbus is a toy, I wouldn't be caught simulated-dead in it, I'd much rather fly my $140 FSLabs Airbus."  Which is, of course, a very well done high-end product.  But it raises the question - are we complaining about premium pricing across the board or only in certain cases?

It all seems a bit circular - and makes me sympathetic to the developers that decide that they're going to go deal with the professional training market and forget about the "community" altogether.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with all the reactions.

[188AHC 2,138]

Domkle  -  How are you using the quote function?  I rarely ever see a quote in your posts, just an empty box.  Interestingly though, in your last two post, one did indeed show the quote and the other had a blank.

I suspect this is operator error.😀  To quote, click on the topic you wish to quote, tap the quote button in the lower left of the screen and the quote should show up in a box and your response would be underneath it. or in this case above it. I quoted you as an example.

1 hour ago, domkle said:

 

I would agree on one thing, Dave.  All our arguments are ultimately founded upon our political views, in the wide acceptance of the term. Is that bad ? When I was young, we used to say, everything is political. Being older, mellower, I'd say a lot of things are political 😏. 

I may be too naive (I don't think I am but I am biased here ) but I don't see anybody here paid to sway the public opinion in favor of any corporate entity.  

I came back to Avsim when the new sim was announced after a RPG binge. I was horrified by the schadenfreude of some, rejoicing of a future demise of the cottage industry which has made our hobby what it is. Make no mistake, some (and I don't target individuals of this thread) not only heap garbage on PMDG at 140 dollars a pop but also on Orbx which sells beautiful airports at 12 bucks apiece. Since 2k2 there is a freeloading mentatlity in this hobby that I do not like. Everything is due. Everything should be freeware or at least cheap as dirt. Nope. The search for profit has given us the toys we never would have gotten with freeware (I love freeware, I've made some).

 

 

 

 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

Hey Rick

I do use the quote function to inform a fellow simmer that I answer him but edit/empty the quote to lighten the burden for mobile users as often requested by your colleague Bill. Sometimes I keep a couple of sentences to show what specifically I am responding to. Anything wrong  ?

PS Domkle is the moniker, Dominique is the name . Years back, after a hiatus, I couldn't get my old moniker (Dominique) back (maybe after the big disaster of 09 ?) that I used in the early 2000s.

 

EDIT @188AHCOops I forgot to quote you  ! I should go to bed !

Edited November 10, 2019 by domkle

[188AHC 2,138]

22 minutes ago, domkle said:

Hey Rick

I do use the quote function to inform a fellow simmer that I answer him but edit/empty the quote to lighten the burden for mobile users as often requested by your colleague Bill. Sometimes I keep a couple of sentences to show what specifically I am responding to. Anything wrong  ?

 

 

EDIT @188AHCOops I forgot to quote you  ! I should go to bed !

I just wondered why your quote blocks were blank. I think you misunderstood Bill's and my request that long quotes should be pruned. This doesn't mean all quotes. Generally an opening sentence will let the members know what you are responding to. This is much better than a blank as the block still has to be processed whether the characters are visible or not. So, if you wish to quote someone, select the sentence that is most important and leave that in your quote. Prune the rest.

Thanks

 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

1 hour ago, Alan_A said:

 makes me sympathetic to the developers that decide that they're going to go deal with the professional training market and forget about the "community" altogether.

Sorry for the Maddog folks. My bad. 

I fully  concur to your conclusion. Why bother with the retail market when you can make  more money AND have more gratification from institutional buyers.  

Edited November 10, 2019 by domkle

[Farlis 2,281]

8 hours ago, ailchim said:

The fact there are no competitors is not PMDG's fault....

I don't blame them for being the only add-on developer who develops a decent 747 for example. I blame them for exploiting that fact by charging ever higher prices, and coming up with ever new excuses to do so.

The reasoning to increase P3D prices substantially seemed solid to me (Licensing costs for professional software being higher). But now they are going to develop for a new simulator that has no professional license, and are not dropping the price tag. I'm curious what their excuse is going to be this time.

[Alan_A 1,650]

19 minutes ago, Farlis said:

But now they are going to develop for a new simulator that has no professional license, and are not dropping the price tag.

Important point that's gotten a little bit obscured in all the noise and smoke.  Wondering if that isn't the main reason people are exercised - not (or not only) the price itself, but the fact that "professional" pricing seems to be carrying over into a consumer sim, where you might reasonably expect that prices would be closer to FSX levels. 

[DAD 2,650]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:15 PM, Raymond.Groenendijk said:

Quite simple, I won't buy it at that price, it is simply too much for me because I do not fly tubeliners that much. I really like the 737 and I know a lot of the procedures by heart, but 140$ for something that I might fly for an hour or two a week is just a bit too much

Again, while  I can understand if some are deterred by those anticipated prices, nobody is forced to by the NGX. I will for sure. And like some mentioned, 140 bucks are relative in the end. I pay at least twice a month that amount for dinner with my family (lasting approx 2 hours) and heck I will pay probably 2000% of that amount for a new PC to make MSFS run at all. My current workstation is 10 yrs old and is just fine for word, outlook and FSX.... 

[carbonbasedlifeform 179]

4 hours ago, domkle said:

but also on Orbx which sells beautiful airports at 12 bucks apiece.

I think their value is really in their regions, which contain tons of airports.

Competition is always good though. It seems like PMDG (I don't sim tubeliners though) and OrbX are the best in their fields so they charge the most. Honestly, the only freeware I've enjoyed are the demos (unlimited) that payware companies make to get new customers.

[ark 1,288]

2 hours ago, Farlis said:

The reasoning to increase P3D prices substantially seemed solid to me (Licensing costs for professional software being higher). But now they are going to develop for a new simulator that has no professional license, and are not dropping the price tag. I'm curious what their excuse is going to be this time.

Seems to me one possible plausible reason is exactly what you point out -- it is a new sim. I would expect it is a lot easier, therefore less time consuming and costly, to develop a product for a sim that you are very familiar with than for a new sim that you haven't developed anything for yet. And yes, I understand it remains to be seem just how 'different' MSFS will be development-wise. Maybe a lot, maybe not.

And of course, PMDG, or any company,  doesn't have to justify their prices. If the value vs cost is not there for me, it doesn't make any difference even if the cost is well justified.

Al

Edited November 10, 2019 by ark

[Alec 370]

5 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

Second, I'm a little mystified as to what you hope to accomplish, by constantly complaining about these things? I'm fairly certain, that you won't get the price lowered, since PMDG most likely has already heard this rant a number of times - yet they continue to ask these incredibly unrealistic and insane prices (by your account).

 

I never said I spoke for the community. The fact that in this post, I heard a lot of people saying they´re happing paying upwards of 140$ for the addon, is alone a testament of that.

And I used to be a PMDG Owner, I had the B747, 737NGx, and finally, the B777, my last PMDG Plane. After that, other developers started doing things as good as PMDG, sometimes even better in certain areas that interested me. Before that, PMDG was king, only Level D has anything close, if I remember correctly. Not having a PMDG Addon meant you didn´t like to experience the real thing in your sim.

Anyway, I came to the conclusion, after reading all the posts, and I think they are a good sample of the community, each with different and valuable opinion, that PMDG has been making an effort to stay at the upper elite of the FS addon Market, just like Apple does with their phones. It´s not interesting to them having a larger user base, and they get their money not from volume, like many devs do to keep alive. And it´s fine, they´re entitled to that strategy whenever they want.

And I´m fine with that as well, so what´s the point in me and other people posting against it? The community is a vehicle for people to get heard by developers, so I guess what me and everybody else who didn´t agree with those prices are saying is basically: By charging that much, that is a number we´re not willing to go for your product, we will go elsewhere from now on. Not just to PMDG, but other devs, who likely do market research, gathering opinions on the range of the price they can go or not. If we seal our mouth shut, trusting these companies know what they´re doing etc, etc, we can be doing damage to other devs, who have not enough feedback to set their aims and targets.

 

That´s it for me. I hope this thread doesnt become a war where nothing good comes out.

[b737800 470]

2 hours ago, Alec said:

 

I never said I spoke for the community. The fact that in this post, I heard a lot of people saying they´re happing paying upwards of 140$ for the addon, is alone a testament of that.

At last, a well written post on the non-supporting side of the PMDG pricing point. I'm on the other side of the fence (in case you didn't already realise) but I totally understand and accept your rationale.

Edited November 11, 2019 by 188AHC
Pruned long quote

[188AHC 2,138]

As we've asked before, please prune long quotes.