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PMDG NG3 for the MSFS2020 will cost $139.99

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**Thread Warning** this thread is almost wholly based on arguing each other’s opinions. None of these will change. The thread may last forever. You will not win. Persistence is futile. **Thread Warning**

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9 hours ago, Noooch said:

I am sorry but I truly think this price for an addon aircraft is pure lack of respect for the consumer. This is only my opinion and that might be not the truth, but it is how I feel it. Maybe "insane" was not the appropriate word and I apologize, but you get the idea 😉

Insane doesn't shock me if you add insane "for me". I would take exception of "lack of respect" though. There is no loyalty in the consumers market from the consumers side either, and there shouldn't be any. We buy according to our budget of the day and our evaluation of the ratio  quality/price ... and our fancy. Thats why the stores are full of goods made in China . The lack of respect would be for me to lie on the quality and to promise an after-sale service which would'nt exist. 

PMDG high price marketing opens a market to other cheaper aircraft manufacturers. And it is good for us. 

PS again comparing what I pay to Canal+ sat TV, Netflix and Spotify per month for our entertainment, 140 bucks for a plane is not insane, maybe on the expensive side.

 

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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38 minutes ago, Superdelphinus said:

**Thread Warning** this thread is almost wholly based on arguing each other’s opinions. None of these will change. The thread may last forever. You will not win. Persistence is futile. **Thread Warning**

We have a word in French for that "discussions de café du Commerce", loosely translated as cafeteria talks. You know when you remake the world in a bistrot. At the end of the day, it serves no other purpose than shooting the breeze between friends around a beer. Except that we have no beer here.

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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6 hours ago, Scottoest said:

This isn't public utilities or housing we are talking about here, where some amount of regulation is warranted.  It's a digital plane for a piece of software.

I have to agree with this. If it's not a basic necessity, the free market is perfectly fine.

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6 hours ago, b737800 said:

 

P3D / FSX / XP active users: 3 million
% of those that have paid for any add-ons: 20% = 600,000
% of those that are interested in 1 specific airliner type: 20% = 120,000 (this is my target market)
% of those that I can expect to be made aware of and consider my product: 30% (total guess) = 36,000
% conversion rate: 10% = 3,600 units sold
Timescale to sell those units: 2 years
Price point $140

Gross income = 140 * 3,600 = $504,000, over 2 years, heavily weighted to 1st year,

 

And all that without taking piracy into consideration. I would reduce the conversion rate even further in order to take into account piracy. What PMDG/other devs could do to mitigate that is to offer the product at a reasonable price in order so that piracy would not be attractive anymore. 

So far we're not there yet. I payed for FS Passengers 30 EUR (a fair price would have been 10 EUR the most), the developer (a single person) is missing for quite a while, the product not updated to work with the latest P3D. Do I feel cheated? Yes, I do. Would I buy again from him or would I use pirated versions? I would certainly not buy from him again. 

So you can imagine, someone like me would not ever be moved by the support developers rhetoric, especially with the inflated add on prices. 

At 140 EUR/plane they will be pirated a lot. At 60 or less, a lot more people would buy and have a safer and a easier experience with their products. I am in the crowd that hopes MS will step in and regulate this market. It's not fair to take advantage of their platform to sell products that are 2x more expensive than the base sim (assuming the FS price will be 60 EUR per license). MS could simply just take a x% out of every sale (Steam model) and (x+50)/sale for addons that are over 60 EUR/license. Since most users will eventualy shift to MSFS 2020 the demand will be there so developers will eventually want a share of it.

 

 

Edited by Mihai Eu

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54 minutes ago, bashope said:

I have to agree with this. If it's not a basic necessity, the free market is perfectly fine.

Lets be blunt, it is a toy :laugh: !

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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8 hours ago, 188AHC said:

That's called capitalism and is the foundation of the prosperity we see in our world today. 

You mean that's the foundation of the unequal distribution of wealth we see in the world today. 😉

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36 minutes ago, Mihai Eu said:

Would I buy again from him or would I use pirated versions? I would certainly not buy from him again. 

At 60 or less, a lot more people would buy and have a safer and a easier experience with their products

 

What is your profession, and can I buy whatever product or service you might be involved with at a price that I choose, not you, even though I can only guess your costs? If not, I'll steal it anyway. All that written in the same post that talks about fairness.

At $60 or less per unit they would have to sell 3 times the volume to be in the same financial position.

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14 minutes ago, Farlis said:

You mean that's the foundation of the unequal distribution of wealth we see in the world today. 😉

Yeah, better have a system where nobody can afford anything expensive, actually anything at all 'cause the shops are empty.

 

 


Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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28 minutes ago, b737800 said:

At $60 or less per unit they would have to sell 3 times the volume to be in the same financial position.

And yet they may sell far greater than 3x the volume if they reduce the price to that level. A sim add-on is highly price elastic.

I liked your attempt to calculate the potential market, at lot of the rationale seemed sound. However, it's a huge stab in the dark, we just don't know the numbers buying (nor ever will).
What we can tell is that it appears the NGXu is somewhat popular based on how many claim to have bought it and the numbers posting pictures and videos of it.

All I know is that I wish I could charge clients a 40% increase in the space of a year and have a loyal following happily defending my decision.

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I don't have any idea whether these figures reflect reality but the methodology should be centered on RoI not sales and include elasticity demand vs price. And Randazzo may have some ideas on both.


Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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14 minutes ago, F737NG said:

However, it's a huge stab in the dark, we just don't know the numbers buying (nor ever will).

Exactly right. As I mentioned I'm in exactly that position now and I have to make estimates based on something that has taken 1 year of my time to create and having done exactly the same thing 3 years or so ago.

My own calculations give me a reasonable expected sales volume of 10,000 units. The "Microsoft" involved takes 50%, however they do all the marketing and POS. At $80 per unit to the end user that gives me a gross of $400,000, of which 25% goes to my investor, leaving roughly $300,000 for me, spread over a likely timeline of 2 years. Given the risks involved, what I *could* earn from other efforts etc. means that although that income might sound high to some, it's only just hitting the "go for it" criteria for me. The fact that there is also a "for professional use" possibility from the same software with little to no extra effort tips it over the edge.

...and after this project comes another, so the cycle repeats.

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On 11/10/2019 at 11:50 PM, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm still puzzled at PMDG's commitment to MSFS given they (Robert) were as surprised about MSFS announcement as other development teams ... pretty bold statement but maybe that's more about selling to the "here and now" to cover the possible future.  Either way, it's great to see PMDG embrace the "unknown".

I have absolutely no knowledge of these matters of course but from their published statements, PMDG's initial ambivalence about MSFS was centred on the market structure MS had in mind.  Would it be open to 3rd party developers as it is for FSX/P3D or would it follow the MS Flight or FSX Steam models?  The fact they now do intend to develop for MSFS must surely mean they now have a better understanding of what's intended.   


                                  ngxu_banner.png

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19 hours ago, MattNischan said:

So, it's really more of a business decision than anything else for PMDG in order to keep the bills paid while this big sim shift is in process and then still realize some additional value from the extra MSFS development cycle.

 

19 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

But didn’t the consumer choose to buy it for their own satisfaction and enjoyment ? 

Of course they did! However, considering the huge number of folks who decried loudly and often immediately following the news of the new MSFS coming in a year or so that "they won't buy anything for FSX/P3D," here many of them now throwing money at PMDG for the NGXu... :laugh:

As I said, it was a darned clever marketing ploy! :ph34r:

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Fr. Bill    

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18 hours ago, 188AHC said:

...

price they think the market will bear. That's called capitalism and is the foundation of the prosperity we see in our world today. 

...

If the point of capitalism is to generate money then I think it should be asked what is the purpose of money and just how much money is enough.  Theres no shortage of money in this world.  

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|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

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